this is a reposted conversation I had that explores "the noble savage myth" rhetoric and also takes a look at the opposite side of that spectrum, unpacking what we might describe as the title above
[Have to break down my comment into small chunks to determine what the AI censor is catching...]
...the amount of crypto-christians and KKK types that seem to dominate the scene.
No doubt this is the work of CIA and friends. Far right groups are historically driven and funded by the spooks in CIA, MI6. Mossad. Racial hatred is a classic divide & conquer technique to ensure the slaves never team up to grab the pitchforks ever again.
Good stuff. I have been researching for decades but became more engaged with the "truther" scene online during the "Covid" operation, like many others, and am continuously stumped by the amount of crypto-christians and KKK types that seem to dominate the scene.
[I have to break down my comment into small chunks to determine what the AI censor is catching...]
...the amount of crypto-christians and KKK types that seem to dominate the scene.
No doubt this is the work of CIA and friends. Far right groups are historically driven and funded by the spooks in CIA, MI6. Mossad. Racial hatred is a classic divide & conquer technique to ensure the slaves never team up to grab the pitchforks ever again.
Urgh, “great replacement” nonsense in so called “freedom” circles! Sometimes I think there is no hope for this kind of thinking except perhaps comedy, my fav skit being this one called Reverse Racism by Amer Rahman in the aptly titled “Fear of a Brown Planet” channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw_mRaIHb-M
Firstly, thanks for posting quotes repeatedly from Charles Mann's works, I've finally ordered 1491 after meaning to for a couple years now!
I studied French colonialism in West Africa at uni in the 90s and I wrote my Master's thesis specifically about Senegal. The intellectuals I read were openly critical, especially around education and the whitewashing of their history. "Nos ancestres, les Gaulois." was the opening sentence in every child's history textbook.
It works the same all over, except at that time I had no idea the same thing had happened to this country/continent centuries earlier, even though I studied history. We aren't meant to equate 'us' with the colonized, but rather the colonizer, which was easiest to achieve with the cowboys and indians Hollywood narrative. The barbaric natives, the unwashed, the uncivilized, well they needed 'us' they mostly welcomed us, except for those few outlying violent tribes. Total nonsense I now understand, but it only takes a couple of generations before the replaced history is all that anyone knows, because they've all been forced to learn and repeat it. We have been on record as some kind of colonized success story because already by the 1700s we were successfully dominated by the same militerized global force still looting and pillaging the resources of the world, now in 'our' name, having convinced the masses 'they' are us when in fact most likely we were the ones assimilated, not (just) the so-called savage tribes, ALL of us who weren't killed off, put into institutions or enslaved.
The whole color thing is definitely a red herring, because 'melting pot' was the norm always, not just once they started importing the swarthy types into the relatively recent whitewashing strategy that predated it. The 'Invisible hand' has been moving populations around, through wars, forced migrations, coercive control, at their whim for as long as they've been organized into militaries. Once I realized the actual military industrial complex has been running for at least 500 years, and that we are indeed an enslaved people, the world started making a lot more sense!
Thanks for sharing your convo and continuing in your due diligence, lordy how we need it! First the slaves must free their minds!
You are most welcome my friend! If there is one thing I am good for it is relentlessly quoting obscure books that challenge the status quo narrative! ;)
I look forward to hearing what you think of the book as a whole.
That is very interesting regarding Senegal, thanks for sharing that. I have only studied the Congo and Ethiopia a bit from that time frame. Some very unpleasant bankster funded pillaging went down (and is still going down in the Congo). Before the church and then banking cartel imposed their monoculture thinking onto the Ethiopians, the people there had some very advanced polyculture food cultivation systems. For instance, the Gedeo people in Southern Ethiopia managed agroforestry homegardens that integrated trees with staple crops like Enset (Enset ventricosum), often utilizing the forest and enriching forest biodiversity with perennial crops. They had traditions similar to my ancestors that saw the trees as revered elders and teachers (as well as providers). Then the benevolent Christians showed up told the animist locals that they were dirty heathens and pagans that needed to be saved. Claimed the land in the name of god and imposed monocultures instead. The church gained vast amounts of land through imperialistic conquest with bands of armed thugs that told indigenous people to convert and become subservient peasants or die. This introduced a feudal system. It defined who owned the land, how it was taxed, and how the newly invented and imposed peasant class worked.
Interestingly, while the larger (anthropocentric exploitative Christian dogma guided) feudal empire enforced edicts displaced many from their traditional lands and food systems, there were some quasi-animists in the early churches there that did choose to protect little parcels of forest surrounding the church (declaring them as sacred groves). It was still land theft from indigenous using violence, but at least they did not chop the forests down in those rare instances and some of those "church forests" do still remain today.
When European oligarch dominated statism (as opposed to church/monarchy feudalism) became the dominant system of governance in Ethiopia they of course partnered with the banking cartel to force locals into debt slavery and Big Ag corporations forced their products on the locals and make them dependent.
To fund large industrial projects, the central government borrowed heavily from central banking cartel operators (such as the World Bank and the BIS). To pay back these loans, the government 'leased' (aka pillaged and stole) ancestral and communal lands to hand over to foreign investors and private corporations. This forced indigenous forest tending groups off their lands. It destroyed their traditional livelihoods and displaced them from their homes.
Big Ag began shifting Ethiopia's agriculture during the 1960s and 1970s, when global corporations pushed the first "Green Revolution". This attack on indigenous food systems promoted mass-produced, single-crop farming and imported seeds over ancient, local food systems and diverse heirloom varieties. The ancient systems were heavily crippled over decades of "modernization" where local farmers were squeezed into becoming dependent on eternal inputs and patented seeds (making them at the mercy of the banking cartel for loans).
Just like here in Canada, in the US and most other places on earth that were once heavily forested with old growth ecosystems, once the benevolent and all knowing Christian statist regimes set up shop, places that once rained food from the sky (via old growth food forests) were aggressively deforested, plowed and turned into monocultures for grain (decertifying vast regions and creating scarcity where there was once abundance and biodiversity).
40 percent of Ethiopia's land area was originally covered by high canopy old growth forests, less than 3% remain today.
Fast forward to today, when people think of Ethiopia in the west, many think of those emaciated starving people we have seen on TV and think of it as a place of famine and lacking food. What most do not realize when they watch the UNICEF propaganda depicting us helpful and compassionate "civilized" folks helping the poor starving savages, is that the scarcity there was manufactured by western civilization and continues to be imposed by the oligarchy there through a variety of means.
Okay i`m done ranting about Ethiopia (for now).
All of that was to say, that the myth of the benevolent civilized people helping the stupid savages to live better is often a totally inverted depiction of reality.
Well said regarding the invisible hand.
Thanks for offering your two cents my friend, your input is always welcome.
There’s a great podcast called “Empire” by William Dalrymple and Anita Anand on all the empires throughout history, they go back pretty far in time and tell it all in a super engaging way, bringing characters to life and stuff - not at all soporific war history !
Thanks! I do not think I could recommend one single book as rock solid and comprehensive (as all authors no matter how well meaning have their biases, blind spots and a book accurately describing all the cultures from this continent would have to be ten thousand pages long) but I’ll think on it and recommend several books.
What do you guys think of "Black Elk Speaks"? Is Black Elk too close to the issue to give an objective opinion? Or is his comedic skill as a Heyoka just the kind of pull no punches outlook that is needed in understanding the big picture? Or, is this book a little too close to the New Ager's bleeding hearts and has thus become trite and belongs more in Oprah's book list circles?
What makes this material so hard to get into is exactly what you said, Gavin. There were SO MANY damn tribes (sometimes even collective republics) on this continent that it makes it incredibly hard to understand the full picture with how suppressed and dumbed down the history has been. Hard to know where to start. All I know is the Hopi prophecies were incredibly prescient, and I know they weren't the only ones, but I don't know which tribes and what they said exactly (and even the Hopi's ideas have been watered down by naive New Ager's and secret society agent provocateurs). Other than that I only know a tiny bit of technical knowledge about the Salish and PNW peoples, the Iroquois nation, and a tiny bit about the Lakota area.
I guess what I'm saying is it's hard to know where to start with all the info, and lack of info, out there. And personally I think it's important that we not only understand our own personal genetic lineage, but also the mindset, history, and lineage of the black nobility psychos that have taken over the planet over the past 3,000+ years, AND also the land and the history of the peoples where we currently live. It's a fucking tall order with the massive suppression of all three going on that unfortunately the land and the personal often take a backseat to the black nobility car crash, due to the massive spectacle they've created, but also out of self-preservation.
"Replies hidden according to Gavin’s Newsletter’s reply rules and moderation preferences"
Js are white people yet the white supremacists keep insisting they are a distinct race.
In this way, the snow knights support the propaganda of Is real: ancestral land claim and "ant1semit1sm"
[Have to break down my comment into small chunks to determine what the AI censor is catching...]
...the amount of crypto-christians and KKK types that seem to dominate the scene.
No doubt this is the work of CIA and friends. Far right groups are historically driven and funded by the spooks in CIA, MI6. Mossad. Racial hatred is a classic divide & conquer technique to ensure the slaves never team up to grab the pitchforks ever again.
Good stuff. I have been researching for decades but became more engaged with the "truther" scene online during the "Covid" operation, like many others, and am continuously stumped by the amount of crypto-christians and KKK types that seem to dominate the scene.
[I have to break down my comment into small chunks to determine what the AI censor is catching...]
...the amount of crypto-christians and KKK types that seem to dominate the scene.
No doubt this is the work of CIA and friends. Far right groups are historically driven and funded by the spooks in CIA, MI6. Mossad. Racial hatred is a classic divide & conquer technique to ensure the slaves never team up to grab the pitchforks ever again.
It was this part. I am spending my day working out how to get it up :) I have all day :)
https://i.postimg.cc/85rxzmYV/Screenshot-2026-07-12-at-17-16-33.png
Good stuff. Please stop censoring, whoever you are.
Censoring? Who are you addressing that accusation towards?
Probably the AI censor
Okay, I am not familiar with that phenomenon on Substack, is it new?
I have had individual people censor me (like I describe in the article below) https://gavinmounsey.substack.com/p/a-few-books-i-am-currently-readingre but not some automated AI censor me on here (yet).
"Replies hidden according to Gavin’s Newsletter’s reply rules and moderation preferences"
I have not set any "rules and moderation preferences" so they have apparently applied some default setting to my account.
I`ll look into it when I have time.
yes. It took me some time but I think I have finally managed to post my comment, albeit in small chunks, sorry.
It seems impossible to post the text in my screenshot, no matter how i try to reword it.
" they hunted the woolly mammoth to extinction.”
"I don’t think human sacrifice was common in North America, I think that was mainly a Mesoamerica and South American thing."
They all think, they are real thinkers.... surely those are their own thoughts, conclusions derived from deep research without prejudice or bias.
People are waking up to the anti-White hatred. Thank you for sharing 🙏
Urgh, “great replacement” nonsense in so called “freedom” circles! Sometimes I think there is no hope for this kind of thinking except perhaps comedy, my fav skit being this one called Reverse Racism by Amer Rahman in the aptly titled “Fear of a Brown Planet” channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw_mRaIHb-M
Firstly, thanks for posting quotes repeatedly from Charles Mann's works, I've finally ordered 1491 after meaning to for a couple years now!
I studied French colonialism in West Africa at uni in the 90s and I wrote my Master's thesis specifically about Senegal. The intellectuals I read were openly critical, especially around education and the whitewashing of their history. "Nos ancestres, les Gaulois." was the opening sentence in every child's history textbook.
It works the same all over, except at that time I had no idea the same thing had happened to this country/continent centuries earlier, even though I studied history. We aren't meant to equate 'us' with the colonized, but rather the colonizer, which was easiest to achieve with the cowboys and indians Hollywood narrative. The barbaric natives, the unwashed, the uncivilized, well they needed 'us' they mostly welcomed us, except for those few outlying violent tribes. Total nonsense I now understand, but it only takes a couple of generations before the replaced history is all that anyone knows, because they've all been forced to learn and repeat it. We have been on record as some kind of colonized success story because already by the 1700s we were successfully dominated by the same militerized global force still looting and pillaging the resources of the world, now in 'our' name, having convinced the masses 'they' are us when in fact most likely we were the ones assimilated, not (just) the so-called savage tribes, ALL of us who weren't killed off, put into institutions or enslaved.
The whole color thing is definitely a red herring, because 'melting pot' was the norm always, not just once they started importing the swarthy types into the relatively recent whitewashing strategy that predated it. The 'Invisible hand' has been moving populations around, through wars, forced migrations, coercive control, at their whim for as long as they've been organized into militaries. Once I realized the actual military industrial complex has been running for at least 500 years, and that we are indeed an enslaved people, the world started making a lot more sense!
Thanks for sharing your convo and continuing in your due diligence, lordy how we need it! First the slaves must free their minds!
You are most welcome my friend! If there is one thing I am good for it is relentlessly quoting obscure books that challenge the status quo narrative! ;)
I look forward to hearing what you think of the book as a whole.
That is very interesting regarding Senegal, thanks for sharing that. I have only studied the Congo and Ethiopia a bit from that time frame. Some very unpleasant bankster funded pillaging went down (and is still going down in the Congo). Before the church and then banking cartel imposed their monoculture thinking onto the Ethiopians, the people there had some very advanced polyculture food cultivation systems. For instance, the Gedeo people in Southern Ethiopia managed agroforestry homegardens that integrated trees with staple crops like Enset (Enset ventricosum), often utilizing the forest and enriching forest biodiversity with perennial crops. They had traditions similar to my ancestors that saw the trees as revered elders and teachers (as well as providers). Then the benevolent Christians showed up told the animist locals that they were dirty heathens and pagans that needed to be saved. Claimed the land in the name of god and imposed monocultures instead. The church gained vast amounts of land through imperialistic conquest with bands of armed thugs that told indigenous people to convert and become subservient peasants or die. This introduced a feudal system. It defined who owned the land, how it was taxed, and how the newly invented and imposed peasant class worked.
Interestingly, while the larger (anthropocentric exploitative Christian dogma guided) feudal empire enforced edicts displaced many from their traditional lands and food systems, there were some quasi-animists in the early churches there that did choose to protect little parcels of forest surrounding the church (declaring them as sacred groves). It was still land theft from indigenous using violence, but at least they did not chop the forests down in those rare instances and some of those "church forests" do still remain today.
When European oligarch dominated statism (as opposed to church/monarchy feudalism) became the dominant system of governance in Ethiopia they of course partnered with the banking cartel to force locals into debt slavery and Big Ag corporations forced their products on the locals and make them dependent.
To fund large industrial projects, the central government borrowed heavily from central banking cartel operators (such as the World Bank and the BIS). To pay back these loans, the government 'leased' (aka pillaged and stole) ancestral and communal lands to hand over to foreign investors and private corporations. This forced indigenous forest tending groups off their lands. It destroyed their traditional livelihoods and displaced them from their homes.
Big Ag began shifting Ethiopia's agriculture during the 1960s and 1970s, when global corporations pushed the first "Green Revolution". This attack on indigenous food systems promoted mass-produced, single-crop farming and imported seeds over ancient, local food systems and diverse heirloom varieties. The ancient systems were heavily crippled over decades of "modernization" where local farmers were squeezed into becoming dependent on eternal inputs and patented seeds (making them at the mercy of the banking cartel for loans).
Just like here in Canada, in the US and most other places on earth that were once heavily forested with old growth ecosystems, once the benevolent and all knowing Christian statist regimes set up shop, places that once rained food from the sky (via old growth food forests) were aggressively deforested, plowed and turned into monocultures for grain (decertifying vast regions and creating scarcity where there was once abundance and biodiversity).
40 percent of Ethiopia's land area was originally covered by high canopy old growth forests, less than 3% remain today.
Fast forward to today, when people think of Ethiopia in the west, many think of those emaciated starving people we have seen on TV and think of it as a place of famine and lacking food. What most do not realize when they watch the UNICEF propaganda depicting us helpful and compassionate "civilized" folks helping the poor starving savages, is that the scarcity there was manufactured by western civilization and continues to be imposed by the oligarchy there through a variety of means.
Okay i`m done ranting about Ethiopia (for now).
All of that was to say, that the myth of the benevolent civilized people helping the stupid savages to live better is often a totally inverted depiction of reality.
Well said regarding the invisible hand.
Thanks for offering your two cents my friend, your input is always welcome.
There’s a great podcast called “Empire” by William Dalrymple and Anita Anand on all the empires throughout history, they go back pretty far in time and tell it all in a super engaging way, bringing characters to life and stuff - not at all soporific war history !
thanks, looks interesting, will takea listen.
Excellent! Do you have any book recommendations for understanding the diverse cultural landscape of pre-European Turtle Island?
Thanks! I do not think I could recommend one single book as rock solid and comprehensive (as all authors no matter how well meaning have their biases, blind spots and a book accurately describing all the cultures from this continent would have to be ten thousand pages long) but I’ll think on it and recommend several books.
Thanks for the comment.
Much appreciated.
What do you guys think of "Black Elk Speaks"? Is Black Elk too close to the issue to give an objective opinion? Or is his comedic skill as a Heyoka just the kind of pull no punches outlook that is needed in understanding the big picture? Or, is this book a little too close to the New Ager's bleeding hearts and has thus become trite and belongs more in Oprah's book list circles?
What makes this material so hard to get into is exactly what you said, Gavin. There were SO MANY damn tribes (sometimes even collective republics) on this continent that it makes it incredibly hard to understand the full picture with how suppressed and dumbed down the history has been. Hard to know where to start. All I know is the Hopi prophecies were incredibly prescient, and I know they weren't the only ones, but I don't know which tribes and what they said exactly (and even the Hopi's ideas have been watered down by naive New Ager's and secret society agent provocateurs). Other than that I only know a tiny bit of technical knowledge about the Salish and PNW peoples, the Iroquois nation, and a tiny bit about the Lakota area.
I guess what I'm saying is it's hard to know where to start with all the info, and lack of info, out there. And personally I think it's important that we not only understand our own personal genetic lineage, but also the mindset, history, and lineage of the black nobility psychos that have taken over the planet over the past 3,000+ years, AND also the land and the history of the peoples where we currently live. It's a fucking tall order with the massive suppression of all three going on that unfortunately the land and the personal often take a backseat to the black nobility car crash, due to the massive spectacle they've created, but also out of self-preservation.
I have not read the Black Elk book yet thanks for bringing it to my attention and well said.
One book I love (though less Turtle Island focus) is “New Age of Empire” by Kehinde Andrews