If everyone was self sustaining there would be absolutely no need for money. The barter system would function quite well. If indeed we needed money it should be the form of coins made of precious metals, gold and silver with folding money as certificates of equal value that could be exchanged for the actual metal. Gee we already had that system and it was ditched for the fiat system. Forget digital money because it’s not real money it’s fake.
I feel the same way about money, but really, when you think about it, it's not really MONEY.
It's GREED. Where does greed come from? FEAR. Fear of not being good enough, not having enough, not eating enough, living well enough, having enough of what you need to live and be healthy... After that, the fear turns into greed, and the greed turns into malicious behavior in order to satisfy the greed, which really, when you get into it and can STAY into it, never goes away. So... Here we are, with an absolutely EXTREME, Extraordinary situation, where people who haven't done much of any kind of work at all, for generations and generations, because they have so much material wealth-- are trying to kill off the rest of us, and just keep a few for their slaves. The oligarchy from HELL.
What are we going to do about this? It's a question that is frequently on my mind, but the answer, or answers, to it are elusive.
That said, I am going to HAPPILY send you some money, after months of wishing to do so, so that I can have, hold, and keep the book you made, forever and ever, amen. ^_^ If I'm gonna play this game, then I'll play it MY way. ;)
I will add, tho: I strongly believe that ALL people, regardless of anything, should have clean food, clean water, clean air, clean land, clean clothing, and place of shelter... AND a kind of WORK to do that they LIKE, so they feel useful, productive, and healthy. Let it be.
After some consideration, I decided to vote 'no'. That is not just the contrarian in me, but maybe just a bit. ☺️😏
The reason is because we've been able to collectively witness who values money the most and what the results are of such economic policy which backs 'money' which is actually representing not value at all, but the means to manipulate. I'd say this is an invaluable lesson that could've been learned no other way.
Some will learn this lesson. The vast majority will not. The shitties (cities) will be swept away by various actions, both natural and manufactured, and power will continue to corrupt. Money being nothing more than the manifestation of 'current sea'.
Whoa, what a question! I've got to re-read and collect my thoughts before participating in your poll. But in the meantime, one of my all time favorite quotes came to mind.
More food for thought.
From the film, Henry and June with the gorgeous Uma Thurman, a most under-appreciated film, I'd say.
"To walk in money through the night crowd, protected by money, lulled by money, dulled by money, the crowd itself a money, the breath money, no least single object anywhere that is not money, money, money everywhere and still not enough, and then no money, or a little money or less money or more money, but money, always money, and if you have money or don't have money it is the money that counts and money makes money, but what makes money make money?”
It comes down to how we as a culture/society assess value. Like it or not we are heading for a technocratic future. In that world a method of stable and trustworthy transaction would be necessary. A few may be able to sidestep into an indigenous and spiritual path. I personally applaud those that are able to make that work. But most won’t. If one is working in the best interest of the earth’s ecosystem, then value must be based on an energy balance cost benefit. Internal earth energies are huge and always expanding due to cosmic and solar input. In fact the input is so vast that there should never be any shortage. Every transaction should be scrutinized for the impact to earth energy balance. Essentially to maintain a stable ecosphere conducive to life. Either enhanced or neutral. Never negative. AI can do these assessments, nearly real time. Fix a value to that. Not sure exactly how yet (perhaps AI can help?) For any transaction to be allowed it would have to pass that test. No matter what scale. And keep the hands off the scale! So it would have to be an accepted, verifiable accounting. We have the technology to do that with AI and blockchain but not the incentive or wherewithal within power structures that profit from the current paradigms. Sort of like carbon credit but without the false premise, opacity, and grift.
In addition to banning fiat money, the practice of fractional reserve lending needs to be outlawed. It is that practice that enables the theft of the wealth of the people by the banksters.
And how would we keep the monetary system from being overtaken by "banksters"? Same old system, same old corruption, seems to me.
The Native tribes didn't use money. They were HAPPY. Or at least, happier than WE are... That said, I mean the collective "we." I live very simply, without much fluff and stuff, and I'm pretty freakin' happy! Of course, I'm a cartoon dog, too. ;)
"Money" is only necessary if people are concerned about materialism more than freedom and happiness. If people didn't want 7 bedroom 5 bath houses, 3 brand new vehicles, boats, motorcycles, etc there would be little need for "money". If I had my way, I would trade goods and services in my community for what we all need. It gets tricky when it comes to housing, but that can be solved in ways as well that doesn't require having "money"... what all these things do require is FREEDOM. Freedom from taxes and oppression. Having a society where "money" isn't necessary also requires self-responsibility. So... it looks like we have a lot of work ahead of us. Haha
What if the vehicles, boats, and other "luxuries" could be for Everybody, but not ALL the time? That might work. If a guy can't live without a boat, he could be a boatman for his job. And so on.
And I agree-- FREEDOM is better than any amount of money, unless you're starving. But if the Native Peoples could live well... and they DID, then why not us?
People have no idea how good life could be, because we compare ourselves to the RICH. I say fuck the rich, they're the most miserable of all of us, seems to me.
Money went from being a token- which could be seashells or tally sticks, temporarily standing in for value in an exchange, to being a method for underwriting greed and amassing wealth. I'm good with the former which has an obvious use, it's when money keeps it's value beyond the exchange that all the troubles arise.
I agree with the first person that it is important to distinguish money from fiat currency. A gift economy, from the quotes you post, sounds to me like it is based more on love, which is beyond forms of exchange. Charles Eisenstein spoke of a sense of obligation in a gift economy which doesn’t feel quite right to me either (and I may have misunderstood him) as obligation feels like it could be imbued with or use guilt as a reason for one’s actions. But all of the above in your article speaks to me of freedom, connection, and love. I don’t know how to live in a Star Trek world money free and I have wished for that. Currently, Bitcoin gives me hope as the supply is fixed and if held in self custody, it is impossible to confiscate. But then I imagine a much different world free from central banks and taxation where people organize themselves freely by choice. I read Christopher Cook here as he writes of how that might work. But fixing the money (fiat currencies that can be printed at will) seems key to me. Lynn Alden’s book Broken Money and Jeff Booth’s book on deflation I found good reads on the topic as well as my friend’s book, The Seventh Property. (Not financial advice…just thoughts here).
Ideally i would prefer a gift economy, as described by the indigenous people. I think it is what we implement naturally within our circles of friends and family.
I like the practice of barter. Money as a medium of exchange seems useful when you don't have a reliable way to decide what the goods or services being traded are worth, or if you need to travel lightly. In small markets you still have the ability to haggle. Inflation is a risk with money, but could also happen under pure barter depending on supply and demand.
However at least you can get a handle on the value of a unit coin because, for example, it buys a loaf of bread over a long period. The coins hold their value due to manufacturing quality control and being tied in value to a well known rare commodity in stable supply such as gold.
Fiat currency, on the other hand, (usually) exists in a monopoly context, ie you arent allowed to barter or to use other media of exchange. More importantly you are required to accumulate it to pay tribute or other fees for service to the issuer. Moreover the fiat issuer controls the value of their currency and thus can effectively enslave you by reducing its buying power.
Central Bank Digital Currency is fiat currency that goes further. The government can see all your transactions all the time and also arbitrarily constrict the flow. At least with fiat cash you could accumulate it via grey or black market transactions when the system isnt working fairly.
All currency needs to be permenatly fixed to one value. No upside or downs. It a tool of trade.. but others created hell through manipulation of markets, charging interest and fees on everything. It needs to be simple, stable
No third party getting slices of every dollar and coin and no charging interest. Our problem is all this slicing through value. Buy gold, there is a fee, sell gold another fee. Soros made billions off of value manipulation... off of air... and then lowers the value for others... The Fed is a parasite.
"Money" is a necessary and inevitable improvement over barter, a point that cannot be argued against. But to be considered money, a substance must satisfy certain criteria, which Maloney explains in detail in the linked video series.
Paper currency (which began as simply receipts for bullion in a vault) cannot satisfy those criteria, which is why it is not money.
"Inflation" is graft. "Fiat currency" is fraud. Those who advocate for it are criminals. As for precious metals ownership, "if you don't hold it, you don't OWN it." Keep stacking.
I was thinking, when the chickens come home, the US Gov will say they can't do Soc Sec anymore, or food stamps, or all that... because there's no money anymore, they've spent it all on war...
I thought, then we'll just tell 'em, PRINT SOME MORE (you a-holes), it's worked for you guys, now let it work for us! And btw, you're all FIRED." ;)
Being as this is really not my purview, financial stuff that is, I can’t say I’ve heard much, because I only scoop the headlines of most things of that sort. I understand the basics, but Bitcoin, and all these apparently “fake” money systems… I can’t really give an opinion b/c I pretty much try to deal in CASH whenever possible, and the rest I just have so little personal wealth, it doesn’t seem worth delving into! I’m more of a health and good nutrition kinda dog. :) If nothing else, BARTER until we can get our sheep together… Cheers.
Due to all the whackos this sort of topic attracts, I haven't really researched it. I searched Catherine Austin Fitts' substack for 'quantum' and 'qfs' but unfortunately there are no hits. I did find this using startpage: https://www.quantum.gov/
Seems to me that like any technology, it could be used for good OR evil.
If everyone was self sustaining there would be absolutely no need for money. The barter system would function quite well. If indeed we needed money it should be the form of coins made of precious metals, gold and silver with folding money as certificates of equal value that could be exchanged for the actual metal. Gee we already had that system and it was ditched for the fiat system. Forget digital money because it’s not real money it’s fake.
I feel the same way about money, but really, when you think about it, it's not really MONEY.
It's GREED. Where does greed come from? FEAR. Fear of not being good enough, not having enough, not eating enough, living well enough, having enough of what you need to live and be healthy... After that, the fear turns into greed, and the greed turns into malicious behavior in order to satisfy the greed, which really, when you get into it and can STAY into it, never goes away. So... Here we are, with an absolutely EXTREME, Extraordinary situation, where people who haven't done much of any kind of work at all, for generations and generations, because they have so much material wealth-- are trying to kill off the rest of us, and just keep a few for their slaves. The oligarchy from HELL.
What are we going to do about this? It's a question that is frequently on my mind, but the answer, or answers, to it are elusive.
That said, I am going to HAPPILY send you some money, after months of wishing to do so, so that I can have, hold, and keep the book you made, forever and ever, amen. ^_^ If I'm gonna play this game, then I'll play it MY way. ;)
I will add, tho: I strongly believe that ALL people, regardless of anything, should have clean food, clean water, clean air, clean land, clean clothing, and place of shelter... AND a kind of WORK to do that they LIKE, so they feel useful, productive, and healthy. Let it be.
After some consideration, I decided to vote 'no'. That is not just the contrarian in me, but maybe just a bit. ☺️😏
The reason is because we've been able to collectively witness who values money the most and what the results are of such economic policy which backs 'money' which is actually representing not value at all, but the means to manipulate. I'd say this is an invaluable lesson that could've been learned no other way.
Some will learn this lesson. The vast majority will not. The shitties (cities) will be swept away by various actions, both natural and manufactured, and power will continue to corrupt. Money being nothing more than the manifestation of 'current sea'.
Whoa, what a question! I've got to re-read and collect my thoughts before participating in your poll. But in the meantime, one of my all time favorite quotes came to mind.
More food for thought.
From the film, Henry and June with the gorgeous Uma Thurman, a most under-appreciated film, I'd say.
"To walk in money through the night crowd, protected by money, lulled by money, dulled by money, the crowd itself a money, the breath money, no least single object anywhere that is not money, money, money everywhere and still not enough, and then no money, or a little money or less money or more money, but money, always money, and if you have money or don't have money it is the money that counts and money makes money, but what makes money make money?”
― Henry Miller
It comes down to how we as a culture/society assess value. Like it or not we are heading for a technocratic future. In that world a method of stable and trustworthy transaction would be necessary. A few may be able to sidestep into an indigenous and spiritual path. I personally applaud those that are able to make that work. But most won’t. If one is working in the best interest of the earth’s ecosystem, then value must be based on an energy balance cost benefit. Internal earth energies are huge and always expanding due to cosmic and solar input. In fact the input is so vast that there should never be any shortage. Every transaction should be scrutinized for the impact to earth energy balance. Essentially to maintain a stable ecosphere conducive to life. Either enhanced or neutral. Never negative. AI can do these assessments, nearly real time. Fix a value to that. Not sure exactly how yet (perhaps AI can help?) For any transaction to be allowed it would have to pass that test. No matter what scale. And keep the hands off the scale! So it would have to be an accepted, verifiable accounting. We have the technology to do that with AI and blockchain but not the incentive or wherewithal within power structures that profit from the current paradigms. Sort of like carbon credit but without the false premise, opacity, and grift.
It may SEEM like we're heading for a technocratic future, but ... don't be too sure.
I will vote "No."
In addition to banning fiat money, the practice of fractional reserve lending needs to be outlawed. It is that practice that enables the theft of the wealth of the people by the banksters.
And how would we keep the monetary system from being overtaken by "banksters"? Same old system, same old corruption, seems to me.
The Native tribes didn't use money. They were HAPPY. Or at least, happier than WE are... That said, I mean the collective "we." I live very simply, without much fluff and stuff, and I'm pretty freakin' happy! Of course, I'm a cartoon dog, too. ;)
"Money" is only necessary if people are concerned about materialism more than freedom and happiness. If people didn't want 7 bedroom 5 bath houses, 3 brand new vehicles, boats, motorcycles, etc there would be little need for "money". If I had my way, I would trade goods and services in my community for what we all need. It gets tricky when it comes to housing, but that can be solved in ways as well that doesn't require having "money"... what all these things do require is FREEDOM. Freedom from taxes and oppression. Having a society where "money" isn't necessary also requires self-responsibility. So... it looks like we have a lot of work ahead of us. Haha
What if the vehicles, boats, and other "luxuries" could be for Everybody, but not ALL the time? That might work. If a guy can't live without a boat, he could be a boatman for his job. And so on.
And I agree-- FREEDOM is better than any amount of money, unless you're starving. But if the Native Peoples could live well... and they DID, then why not us?
People have no idea how good life could be, because we compare ourselves to the RICH. I say fuck the rich, they're the most miserable of all of us, seems to me.
Money went from being a token- which could be seashells or tally sticks, temporarily standing in for value in an exchange, to being a method for underwriting greed and amassing wealth. I'm good with the former which has an obvious use, it's when money keeps it's value beyond the exchange that all the troubles arise.
I agree with the first person that it is important to distinguish money from fiat currency. A gift economy, from the quotes you post, sounds to me like it is based more on love, which is beyond forms of exchange. Charles Eisenstein spoke of a sense of obligation in a gift economy which doesn’t feel quite right to me either (and I may have misunderstood him) as obligation feels like it could be imbued with or use guilt as a reason for one’s actions. But all of the above in your article speaks to me of freedom, connection, and love. I don’t know how to live in a Star Trek world money free and I have wished for that. Currently, Bitcoin gives me hope as the supply is fixed and if held in self custody, it is impossible to confiscate. But then I imagine a much different world free from central banks and taxation where people organize themselves freely by choice. I read Christopher Cook here as he writes of how that might work. But fixing the money (fiat currencies that can be printed at will) seems key to me. Lynn Alden’s book Broken Money and Jeff Booth’s book on deflation I found good reads on the topic as well as my friend’s book, The Seventh Property. (Not financial advice…just thoughts here).
Ideally i would prefer a gift economy, as described by the indigenous people. I think it is what we implement naturally within our circles of friends and family.
I like the practice of barter. Money as a medium of exchange seems useful when you don't have a reliable way to decide what the goods or services being traded are worth, or if you need to travel lightly. In small markets you still have the ability to haggle. Inflation is a risk with money, but could also happen under pure barter depending on supply and demand.
However at least you can get a handle on the value of a unit coin because, for example, it buys a loaf of bread over a long period. The coins hold their value due to manufacturing quality control and being tied in value to a well known rare commodity in stable supply such as gold.
Fiat currency, on the other hand, (usually) exists in a monopoly context, ie you arent allowed to barter or to use other media of exchange. More importantly you are required to accumulate it to pay tribute or other fees for service to the issuer. Moreover the fiat issuer controls the value of their currency and thus can effectively enslave you by reducing its buying power.
Central Bank Digital Currency is fiat currency that goes further. The government can see all your transactions all the time and also arbitrarily constrict the flow. At least with fiat cash you could accumulate it via grey or black market transactions when the system isnt working fairly.
All currency needs to be permenatly fixed to one value. No upside or downs. It a tool of trade.. but others created hell through manipulation of markets, charging interest and fees on everything. It needs to be simple, stable
No third party getting slices of every dollar and coin and no charging interest. Our problem is all this slicing through value. Buy gold, there is a fee, sell gold another fee. Soros made billions off of value manipulation... off of air... and then lowers the value for others... The Fed is a parasite.
"if you could erase the thing called money from being part of the human story, would you?"
"If you could prevent fiat currency from ever being invented/institutionalized, would you?"
These are not the same question, because 'fiat currency' is not 'money.'
The "Federal Reserve" is neither 'federal' nor 'a reserve.'
Mike Maloney does a great job explaining a very complicated issue here: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLE88E9ICdiphYjJkeeLL2O09eJoC8r7Dc&si=uoCTclnITqfVfbV0
Also, thanks for making me look up Kondiaronk.
RE:
"if you could erase the thing called money from being part of the human story, would you?"
"If you could prevent fiat currency from ever being invented/institutionalized, would you?"
These are not the same question, because 'fiat currency' is not 'money.'"
Fair point.
How would you answer both of those questions (considering their distinct implications) ?
"Money" is a necessary and inevitable improvement over barter, a point that cannot be argued against. But to be considered money, a substance must satisfy certain criteria, which Maloney explains in detail in the linked video series.
Paper currency (which began as simply receipts for bullion in a vault) cannot satisfy those criteria, which is why it is not money.
"Inflation" is graft. "Fiat currency" is fraud. Those who advocate for it are criminals. As for precious metals ownership, "if you don't hold it, you don't OWN it." Keep stacking.
Well said.
I was thinking, when the chickens come home, the US Gov will say they can't do Soc Sec anymore, or food stamps, or all that... because there's no money anymore, they've spent it all on war...
I thought, then we'll just tell 'em, PRINT SOME MORE (you a-holes), it's worked for you guys, now let it work for us! And btw, you're all FIRED." ;)
Although “hope is never a strategy,” I’m hoping for a better outcome than their planned fiat collapse > pre-planned bankster Hegelian synthesis.
What have you heard about the so-called “quantum financial system?”
Would you give me a short version of the QFS?
Being as this is really not my purview, financial stuff that is, I can’t say I’ve heard much, because I only scoop the headlines of most things of that sort. I understand the basics, but Bitcoin, and all these apparently “fake” money systems… I can’t really give an opinion b/c I pretty much try to deal in CASH whenever possible, and the rest I just have so little personal wealth, it doesn’t seem worth delving into! I’m more of a health and good nutrition kinda dog. :) If nothing else, BARTER until we can get our sheep together… Cheers.
Due to all the whackos this sort of topic attracts, I haven't really researched it. I searched Catherine Austin Fitts' substack for 'quantum' and 'qfs' but unfortunately there are no hits. I did find this using startpage: https://www.quantum.gov/
Seems to me that like any technology, it could be used for good OR evil.
Being a 'sound money' advocate, the 'cryptocurrency' craze confounds me no end. My earnest hope is that the future of money is this: https://www.apmex.com/product/308965/100-mg-gold-in-greeting-card-happy-birthday-cake-slice