Poll Of The Month : The ๐ฃ๐ผ๐๐ฒ๐ฟ'๐ ๐ผ๐ณ๐ณ. ๐๐ฟ๐ผ๐ฐ๐ฒ๐ฟ๐ ๐๐๐ผ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ ๐ฎ๐ฟ๐ฒ ๐ฒ๐บ๐ฝ๐๐. ๐๐ฎ๐ ๐๐๐ฎ๐๐ถ๐ผ๐ป๐ ๐ฑ๐ฟ๐. What will you do?
gavinmounsey.substack.com
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38 Comments
Iโm fascinated by what you have written and peopleโs answers.
I thought it would be worth sharing someone I have followed for a while on Youtube who already have the perfect answers to a some of this. They are incredibly self-reliant, opted out of the system, live on a very small block, donโt have a car.
Their earlier videos are especially informative.
Meg works for David Holmgren and Patrick is a mindful of knowledge. Theyโve also written books.
From their YouTube you can learn so much about Permaculture, living frugally, fermentation, humanure, foraging, caring for the forest, dehydrating without electricity, toilet paper alternative, herbal medicine, cold bathing, travelling without money, foraging, fasting. I mean the list goes on and on.
These are amazing people who donโt get as much credit as they should: โArtist as Familyโ on YouTube.
They say way more than I ever could and I think people might find their information very helpful.
Late to the discussion, but I guess I'll comment anyway. If I came across a group that would only allow me to join if I had a skill or trade that would benefit them, I wouldn't be interested in joining that group. Regardless of how many skills I have. They would not be my spiritual family, so what's the point? Mere survival? There are too many people who have not yet had the opportunity to learn these types of skills. But they can easily learn if given the chance. I feel that a community such as described would be one rooted in a fear and scarcity mindset. That's not the kind of future I choose to envision, nor how we transform into a harmonious world for ALL. Trust, love, inclusion, kindness, sharing, caring. These ways of being and relating matter far more than any trade or skill set. That's just my way of perceiving it. As long as someone is willing to contribute what they can, is all that matters to me. I do find it ironic and humorous that you quoted Charles Eisenstein though. In his substack about colonizing Costa Rica, he went on with many excuses of how he cannot contribute to a community in any physical way because he lacks skills and is apparently too old, in his mind, to learn them. That whole essay smacked of elitism, and the slew of excuses he made for not being able to physically contribute, seemed to me to be, well, just a bunch of excuses. Anyway, thanks for the food for thought, as always. And I will always be grateful to Charles' substack for leading me to your substack. I find yours far more interesting.
https://artistasfamily.is/
They stopped sharing on YouTube and started sharing everything on their website when their posts got banned on YouTube.
Darnโฆsorry, GavinโฆI wrote a reply to John Galtโs note but not in his Reply โฆit is here in your notes.
~~~
My thought experiment was this:
I would ask to join the homesteading group and tell them Iโm a hard worker who will try to help in any area I may be needed, be it digging and weeding, doing kitchen prep work or clean-up, operating machinery.. I have knowledge in many things but no expertise in anything - I would be one who goes out to pick and clean the garden for the chef, or one who changes out the linens and laundry in the tiny homes of the single people doing the grunt work for us allโฆ.I wouldnโt need to be a leader, Iโd be a great helper instead.
I made the mistake of not fully reading the ingredients - I have gluten as well as processed-food issues and generally am really aware. But I trusted an Emerg. food supplier on the gf aspect and completely neglected everything else about How it was made and preservedโฆdoh!
Big mistake.
Now I can only look at the bins and think โWell, I may be bloated and stuffed up and in massive body inflammation, unable to think clearly, or work in the gardenโฆbut at least I wonโt starve.โ ๐
The plus side: the company is excellent, the product as they offer it is excellent for flavour and selection, their prices are competitive, they offer emergency hard supplies, and they offer really good source information on survival. I tell anyone to order from thereโฆ.I just didnโt read the label.
I need to make my own food.
I think these kind of thought experiments are essential Gavin, thanks for getting us thinking more! So, we would be the ones with wannabes standing at our homestead gate. We are just 2 people who started from scratch 15 years ago. I looked for help in the beginning, then I gave up. I realize your audience is special, Gavin, but for the most part folks just have zero skills anymore, itโs so pathetic. And I get it! I had close to zero (useful) skills tooโI love to cook, always have. But cooking for me did not mean cooking from scratch, so I basically had to relearn everything.
By my calculations we could comfortably feed a few as we stand so far, as long as they werenโt vegetarians. But you ask the right questions, the difficult ones. How would I turn a hungry person away? A hungry family? And I think folks definitely rely on many of us having this attitude. So, Iโll be painfully honest here: Iโd ask Hubby to choose. I know, passing the buck, so lame. We need to be real about our shortcomings though, eh?! He is more pragmatic and less sentimental than I am, thatโs my excuse.
We are at a place where we donโt ever want to go back into the salary-earning matrix, yet we are still young enough (mid 50s) to know thatโs an awfully long time without regular earnings. So, Iโd say the kind of person/family weโd want to attract would not be desperate and they would be entrepreneurially-minded. That way we could start up some kind of income stream together. Hopefully. Provided thereโs still a world out there somewhere. ๐
I am so glad you appreciate the concept and thank you for engaging.
Yes I suppose my thought experiment is absurd to the well rooted homesteader and forest tending/gardener (after all, why would anyone leave a beautiful set up like the one you guys have created! :) )
Sadly, I have to agree about the average citizen having very little skills that are universally applicable (skills that have intrinsic value and would benefit a situation/community regardless of outside circumstances). So many in today's modernized world spend countless hours working towards developing skills (or just wasting time on addicitons/distractions) that are purely digital and synthetic. Such things would have no purpose in a post grid/centralized infrastructure situation.
I appreciate your sharing the reverse answer to my hypothetical (for if people were to show up at your place hungry and without direction). I honestly do not know if I would be able to choose who stays and who goes in a situation like that. I would probably go to extreme lengths to use the extra sets of hands to go foraging and gathering food first (simultaneously teaching them skills they can use if it turns out they cannot stay while also gathering food for the short term). I would do my best to help wayward souls in a situation like that, but at the end of the day I made a promise to provide for my wife and the four legged as well as rooted beings under my care and they would take priority over randoms.
I admire how you have extirpated yourselves from the "salary-earning matrix", it is a work in progress for me. I would like to focus on my Refugia (creating, expanding, sharing endangered medicine/food plants seed bank), regenerative cultivation, forest protecting activism and publishing empowering books but we still have lots of bills to pay and this blog only has a small number of paid subscribers (which I am grateful for, every last one of them, as I do not paywall anything) so I am not able to go full time Regenerative Resistance / Author mode at this time. Perhaps when we fix up and sell this place, move to a homestead sized property and I can scale up producing valuable medicinal and seeds, running classes and other things to create an income to fund printing books that way. For now, I have to go back to the 9-5 (well actually, typically the "6-6") so I can save up for printing and self-publishing my next book. I am grateful that the version of the 'salary earning matrix' I am going back into (likely starting next week) involves planting trees and building soil (mulching etc) as at least that aspect aligns with what I want to do with my time on Earth, so I try to stay focused on that positive aspect (helping people design gardens that provide them with food and medicine where possible at my day job) until I have enough traction to get out of the daily grind cycle.
Thanks again for the thoughtful response.
my view on joining a community intentionally?
as a Jack-of-all(-technical) trades, owning a lot of tools of many of those trades, I've got no shortage of qualifying skills.
but the reason I have those skills is to support my near-rabid views on self sufficiency. not necessarily for barter or acquisition of valuables, though I do use them for that sometimes.
the only reason I'd /voluntarily/ join a community would be for a shared defense against those not in the community... there's power in numbers regarding violent conflict.
yes, admittedly it's easier to specialize and share/trade the results of that specialization among a group. but then one becomes reliant on others in the group for food, power, and other what-have-you. not my favorite situation by far.
I'd definitely prefer to buff up my own homestead, no matter how small, than contribute to a group no matter how well meaning and ethical they may appear to be. I have no issues with trading with such a group, but then it's fair exchange and I wouldn't have to rely on any aspect of the group or feel beholden to provide anything to them unwillingly.
I know a lot of people don't share my mindset and that's fine. A lot of folks also lack the skills and tools to get by with any decent comfort level without involving others, and I both understand that and feel bad for them. still doesn't obligate me to support them. I'm sure there's like minded people out there too, but by default we wouldn't care to gather into a community without needing a mutual defense pact, because the self sufficient don't gain nearly as much from being in a group as those who aren't self sufficient.
//end rant
Thanks for the detailed comment.
I can relate to your feelings regarding trusting your own abilities and homestead set up more than leaning into depending on a broader community but when I dig deeper than my fears and self-interest to the part of myself that chose to come here and live this life, at this time where humanity faces a critical fork in the road, I see things a bit differently.
So while being "reliant on others in the group for food, power, and other what-have-you. (is) not my favorite situation by far." I also simultaneously acknowledge that what I came here to help plant the seeds for is bigger than my individual lifetime, and it is something that cannot flourish through only the work of my individual hands.
Planting the seeds for something capable of replacing the current way of living after the hyper-centralized industrial civilization collapses requires involving myself consciously within a web of reciprocity. That means, giving and receiving, trusting and getting hurt, but also trusting and building lasting alliances that make entire communities stronger. It is less about becoming beholden, and more about becoming kin, recognizing the same spark in our fellow beings that burns in us and fanning that flame so we can all shine brighter and light the way forward. It is less about quantifying what we can gain or lose, and more about recognizing the qualitative enrichment of our lives and the future that can only arise through cultivating symbiosis and reciprocity.
In closing i`ll share the following note I recently posted as it speaks to this topic we are discussing.
Become the living embodiment of the type of world you want to experience and the blossoms of your deeds will sow seeds on the wind that can set down roots in people's hearts and minds all over. Become like a living embodiment of a food forest, resilient through your diverse skills and the symbiotic relationships within and around you, adaptable, abundant, cultivating reciprocal relationships with many beings. In doing so, you will allow future generations to have access to the fruit of freedom through sowing the seeds for a decentralized movement of love, courage, integrity and humility to set down roots in communities all over.
Ethnogenesis refers to efforts to create counter-cultures which are permanent.
Ethnogenesis driven by an ethnoecological imperative of reciprocity is the process of creating an emergent regenerative culture.
โActive ethnogenesis is deliberate, direct planning and engineering of a separate identity. This is a controversial topic, because of the difficulty involved in creating a new ethnic identity. However, it is clear that active ethnogenesis may augment passive ethnogenesis. Active ethnogenesis is usually inspired by emergent political issuesโ
โโฆ[W]hat we tend to think of as cultures are actually patterns of systematic refusal which emerged in response to political conditions deemed unacceptable to some people within a given society. Those people then separate themselves in some way from that society, becoming culturally distinct in the process.
Ethnogenesis: the emergence of a subculture or counterculture which, if able to continue on its line of flight (or dรฉtournement ), would become a different culture entirely (New Travellers and, historically, Irish Travellers are good examples).
The emergence of new cultures through ethnogenesis is well-documented, and often stems from flight from state power, a process which begins with a choice to differ from the majority of an existing group.โ
When we collect, preserve, cultivate and share heirloom seeds (while simultaneously feeding ourselves, growing medicine, providing habitat, nectar for pollinators and biomass for building soil) what we are really doing is engaging in a (non-genetically, non-religious, non-nationalistically and non-geographically defined) form of Ethnogenesis, creating an emergent culture that is primarily defined by its Ethnoecological attributes.
end rant :)
Thanks for the though provoking comment.
I must admit that your viewpoint is much more likely to yield improvements in society, where mine is more merely about survival and comfort.
As a lifelong prepper who grew up in a quasi off-grid homestead, its super frustrating explaining to my spouse and loved ones that our modern supply chains and modern monetary systems are both exceedingly FRAGILE, and that one economic hiccup, one terrorist attack, or simply government incompetence or Wall Street greed, could cause the entire system to come tumbling down. There was this book I read once, "Failures of Imagination," that outlined some of the worst disasters in modern history (including 9/11) and the screaming red flags that people refused to acknowledge due to normalcy bias and denial.
In the prepping community, we call such people "zombies" because when SHTF, they are going to show up at your door, demanding that you "share" the resiliency that you built up over a lifetime, foregoing new cars, family vacations, and dining out, while your surrounding peer group mocked you as a "conspiracy theorist" and lived high on the hog. We advise people to consider who you WANT in your preparedness group, and also to consider who you would not turn away if they show up hungry at your door, and then "go grey man" with everybody else, don't let them know you are prepping for societal collapse so you don't have a target on your back.
Thanks for the comment Anna.
I feel your pain, sometimes people have to live and learn the hard way.
I suppose now that I am "prepped" as an individual and our household is good to go, ideally the next step of prepping would be to do what ever it takes to help my entire neighborhood (or ideally community) to take action and get their individual lives, skillsets, tools and ways of living also "prepped" so that the whole neighborhood and community becomes more resilient. Like a community of old growth trees capable of communicating to warn each other of potential threats, share resources to those in need, support each other during storms and help each other recover afterward, the more we can help others near us send down the roots of resilience, decentralized food cultivation, natural medicine production and seed saving the better off we well all be.
Though with all of that being said, in the era of tictok and twitter addictions, muscle car loan purchases and/or people getting facelifts rather than building a garden or savior seeking "vote harder" statism enthusiasts, that is often easier said than done.
I do not advertise but I am not secretive either, I basically go by the thinking that I described in this interview with Riley when it comes to the potential of garden or pepping supply raiders:
https://edwardslavsquat.substack.com/p/the-revolution-will-involve-fermented?
I actually don't tell my neighbours. But not necessarily for security. When I do tell them things that I think they should know they look at me askance. OK, well, I did my duty by them.
I'm trying to grow a little forest garden and today was the first time I used my own home made compost! I was inspired by people like you Gavin so I did a bit of reading them just decided to go for it. So in the future I hope to have food to share as well as knowledge of how to create healthy soil โบ๐ฑ
That is awesome Kirsty! Thanks for the heartwarming comment.
I am honored to walk this path along side courageous and compassionate people such as yourself.
Thanks for all the knowledge that you kindly share.
Until I found this site I wasn't even aware of this path. I was wondering like a lost soul. I now have purpose.
Sometimes I worry about the thought of this. I am organized and a pretty good planner but the thoughts of planning for something I can hardly conceptualize is a lot. Of course if money ws no object it would be different. Also having a family to care for is also another major factor. If I was to find the homestead I would share my career histories and see if they had a use for me. 30 years as a Paramedic in the city and 25 as an Arborist. Certainly I could contribute something. I also have some culinary training so I could help with the food. Mostly I am a hard worker and pick up fast on new information. My 15 year old asked me what his purpose could be during a similar conversation over dinner a week or so ago. We have found a group of people who might be a good fit for us to integrate into a larger circle of local people. I told him, being 15 you are the future of the group. You are the creator of future generations. You are the future leaders, blacksmiths, carpenters, hunters, security, farmers, medical people. Your job would be to learn and be mentored, work hard, foster hope and be fierce. Learn the laws of the universe and be what is good in the world. I have to admit, I don't spend too much time thinking about it. Its a lot in a world of already dealing with a lot. It may be more critical than the other things I allow to clutter my mind and I may regret it. I hope not. I have security for my family and things. I have a water plan I made progress on the last few months and started a real garden. It's a start. I wish I had filled my freezer during hunting season last year especially with the culling in Texas. Perhaps this year. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels they weight of the universe every time I think about how to get ready. I just wish I didn't have to think about it.
Knowing how to care for trees is a hugely versatile skillset! Add emergency trauma care and medical knowledge on top of that and you have some excellent universal skillsets at your disposal.
Food preserving and preparation is huge as well.
That is really inspiring to hear about your conversation with your 15 year old. Thanks so much for sharing that my friend.
Thanks for the detailed comment Steve.
I should drop an opinion about these food prepper offers, food for a month and etc.
I bought one a couple years ago, I figured I could use it for camping if nothing else.
I'm sure they aren't all the same but the one I got was full of carbs and processed flavourings. You'd be better off just stocking things that you can eat. If you want a ton of carbs for instance, buy 50lb bags of rice, it is good storable food,. Your dollar will go farther.
One of my favorite ways to store food is via working with ancient alchemist beings (fungi) that are capable of turning wood into food. Once inoculated and fully colonized, hardwood logs (such as maple, birch or oak) can last 5 years and be encouraged to fruit (produce nutrient dense mushrooms) at any time of year if you dunk the log sections in water (simulating their natural fruiting cycle stimulus). The log sections can be stored outside and when your done with them they are great for building soil in garden beds.
https://www.fieldforest.net/product/shiitake-on-logs-instruction-sheet/instruction-sheets
I did a presentation for my resiliency group, "How to Build a Prepper's Pantry on a Pauper's Budget." Those "survival buckets" are good for your 72-hour kit in case you have to evacuate to a shelter because they are compact and easy to use, but if your plan to "bug in," then you want to stockpile things that you regularly eat. Your first 90 days of supplies can be ordinary flour, sugar, rice, beans, powdered milk, cooking oil, and whatnot. Once you start stockpiling beyond 90 days, it gets really hard to rotate all that food and keep it fresh, so at some point, you have to start storing "forever foods" such as hard red winter wheat in mylar bags with oxygen absorbers in 5-gallon buckets. But anyways, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (i.e., the Mormons) have some really useful "What to Stockpile" lists on their websites. There are various lists, which you can then adapt to your family preferences and tweak if anybody has food intolerances or special dietary needs.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/food-storage/longer-term-food-supply?lang=eng
Sometimes it's good that I don't throw anything out. (Mostly it's bad)
I'll be putting my preserve jars back in the boxes the jars came in. You make a good point, might have to move quick.
Rice actually improves with age, at least Basmati does. I did build a pantry, using 1x6 strapping for shelves, cheap. filled with canned meat, or on it's way to being filled. Supposed to be good for five years. I have a dehydrator. I know Gavin loves his freeze drying outfit. I keep looking at those, pricey! They do a better job than a dehydrator.
Thanks for the link!
Just remember to soak your rice and double rinse if possible before eating as much of it has pretty high levels of Arsenic. The people in China have been doing that for a long time as they are well aware of the proclivity of many rice species to hyperaccumulate arsenic and the cumulative damage it can do in the body but I find most people in Canada do not soak or rinse their rice.
- https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213453019302332
- https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/01/how-much-arsenic-is-in-your-rice/index.htm
- https://article.images.consumerreports.org/prod/content/dam/cro/magazine-articles/2012/November/Consumer%20Reports%20Arsenic%20in%20Food%20November%202012_1.pdf
I spend most of my time researching contingencies and preparing for them. It's fun.
Have you tried electroculture Gavin? I have one failed experiment, bought some heavy gauge aluminum wire today to try another aerial shape. Will it work? No clue, but it makes a good experiment.
I now have room in my garage for gardening work. I ordered 40 tomato plants, I'll start some seeds. Haven't built my raised beds yet, need my truck! It'll get done, 2 day job.
Also bought four chickens while I was out. Four chickens fills the right number of jars for one run in the pressure cooker.
These are fat chickens, if I have too much I'll have chicken for dinner.
I have books on every damned thing. I learned to ski out of a book. Books are awesome.
Books are here: https://zlibrary-global.se/ and at gutenberg.org. Paper books are so much nicer to read but electronic books are easy to search.
I have over ten thousand videos catalogued. Most are political.
I have stocks of chemicals and suppliments. Tons of food that doesn't need refrigeration. Made some pemmican a couple weeks ago, that worked, I'll split it with the guy that shot the moose and get some more meat.
I have two sets of new tires for each motorcycle along with spares of wearable parts like spark plugs. I should have a truck as soon as I get it on the road, buddies son taking his time fixing a couple things. I have a medium sized tractor. I have three bolt holes if I should have to leave my little town.
etc. etc. etc...
Thanks for the detailed comment my friend.
I have not tried electro-culture but based on my study of the rhizosphere and soil EH, PH and microbiology I can say that there is definitely an electrical and magnetic component to the optimal functioning of rooted biological entities that is not well understood in the mainstream literature. Thus, it makes sense to me that copper aligned in a specific configuration could augment and/or enhance these inherent electrical and magnetic components of plants and other organisms.
I do have a stash of at least 6 months worth of good food set aside, but once I got that I figure that would get us through until I can plant/harvest more crops (even if SHTF in a really inconvenient time of year) so I now focus on universally applicable skillsets (plant identification, mycology, propagating food/medicine plants/trees and preserving them with low tech methods) as I can use those whether I am here or anywhere else.
I appreciate the digital library links.
Cheers!
I've done these things as well. I have long term food stored here and with my son. I also stored things like a washer without electricity, stoves heated by burning anything, rechargeable small appliances from a small solar panel, etc. Low tech things. Now, I'm learning and doing, all I can about fermentation, sprouting, infusions for health, including learning the medicinal and food properties of all the trees and plants in my neighborhood. I have also been planting spices and fruit trees.
That's encouraging. I have some thick copper wire and that's what I used in one of my experiments. I bought the aluminium wire because it was suggested that it made no difference. Of course we like copper better than aluminium but now I can run a controlled experiment, assuming that I get any results at all.
Oh yeah, just ordered another 3D printer. If you're into that check out Prusa's new MK4. https://www.prusa3d.com/en/product/original-prusa-mk4-kit-2/ The reason I have two printers and soon three is that they get sooo much better. Ordered the kit this time, not to save money but so I have to put it together, and learn how it works close to the bone. If you're ordering one for the first time, maybe think about spending another $300 and have them assemble it, but I highly recommend Prusa. He is the man.
Great topic, thank you Gavin. I picked none of the above for part 1 mostly because Iโd be employing a few strategies in tandem. Yes, Iโd try to increase my garden yield. Iโd also look to bagging small game, and paying attention to water collection. And finally I have tactics in place to deal with people who want to steal from me.
Thanks for the candid response.
So glad you emphasized water sourcing.
I lean into mushroom foraging and cultivation more than being able to bag small game myself as mushroom cultivation mediums (inoculated hardwood logs) can be stored long term outside (no tech required) and activated to produce mushrooms fast in a pinch via dunking in water. Also, mushrooms are easier to hunt than wild game in the forest if one is able to identify tree species from a distance ;)
I am woefully ignorant about mushroom growing, but Iโd like to learn more for sure. Given their benefits, I was thinking of getting some โpre-seededโ logs (so to speak). If I understand, I could even have them grow indoors in the basement.
I am still relatively new to mushroom cultivation myself compared to many of my friends (I have been growing mushrooms on hardwood logs for about 7 years now) and the entire science of mycology itself is a relatively young science, so everyone from beginners to experts to PHD specialists are learning new things all the time. Though when it comes to shiitake cultivation and other mushrooms that were foraged for and/or cultivated by people in China and Japan (like Reishi, Cordiceps, Lion's Mane and maitake) there is a long history of medicinal use and ecological studies to tap into there which can help speed up the learning process. I offered a sample from my book that touches on home scale mushroom cultivation in this post:
https://gavinmounsey.substack.com/p/making-allies-in-the-fungal-queendom
and for beginners I would say this book is great:
https://microcosmpublishing.com/catalog/books/8525
Yup you can buy pre-inoculated logs and grow em inside for sure. It is fun to experiment with growbags like these too https://www.fieldforest.net/category/indoor-grow-kits as you can grow them right in your kitchen and if you wanna get really industrious after you harvest you can actually use the myceliated spawn block (the wood chips, rice hulls and nutrients that are all covered in white fungal mycelium/roots in those plastic bags) to make medical tinctures or use them to inoculate outdoor garden beds mulched with wood chips to expand your growing to a veggie bed (if you are growing a good species for that like oyster).
Many thanks!
If your neighbours are starving, face it, you're going to have to feed them.
We & our neighbours are on the same page. Many of us grow food, we all have slightly different crops. Yes, we share together & expect to protect one another against criminal elements.
๐๐๐ My neighbours will get rice & raccoon
That's the way to go. I like my neighbours, except one, but they're normies. I do have bolt holes I can go to with like minded people should it come to that. If it doesn't and we still have to feed our neighbours, they better get used to rice. Me, four chickens thawing out right now to can like my gramma used to.