So I made my first batch using 2 colors of cabbage, grated radish, turmeric, carrot, garlic, apple, some kale, black peppercorns, salt and water. I have tons of brine and everything is covered. It's bubbling like a champ. My concern is the globs of what looks like scoby in kombucha or the mother in vinegar. I can't really find out what to do with it, if anything. There's no mold. It smells great and is beautiful (dont know how to post a pic here). It was a process. The initial sterilization of the first container resulted in a boiling water bath for my legs and feet and a mess of glass everywhere. Learned a lesson. The day after I got the blood test results of my food sensitivity testing and found out nearly everything in the kraut I'm sensitive and allergic to as well as all yeast. I have to do a 4 month food elimination and reintroduction process but am waiting for a convenient time. It's unfortunate but hopefully it'll solve some long standing health challenges. Anyway, what to do about the sludge (brown) and the brine is a little brown also. Its coming up on day 7 so I'm really looking forward to trying it. Thanks
Wow that batch sounds amazing! If she is bubbling like a champ then maybe the "blobs" are Kahm yeast starting to form? If I see any globby stuff or floating anomalous items/substances near the surface of the brine I just open it up and use a fork or spoon to scoop as much out as I can (to give my LAB friends a leg up on any competitor bacteria or fungi they might be fighting it out with in there). If the CO-2 is being produced (bubbling) and the brine is tangy after a week or so then the LAB will have outcompeted any problematic organisms making the contents in a PH range where it should be safe to eat.
How does the brine smell?
Could you send a few pics via email? it may help me assess the status of the ferment more precisely
Ohh man that exploding jar situation sounds brutal! I did that with a jar I was using to make a cup of tea once, the jar exploded and the water landed on my poor cat (she is healed up now but does have a bald patch on her back I feel bad about).
The food sensitivity discovery sounds challenging as well. Have you ever tried Dr. Zack Bush's Ion Gut Health product? I know a few people that tried it and found that they actually had leaky gut syndrome and once the healing was complete many of the things they thought they were allergic to or sensitive to, were not an issue anymore.
Color of the brine can be impacted by the ingredients and not necessarily a problem.
Thanks. I'll email the pics. I have read about his stuff and used the nasal spray for years eliminating sinus infections for the most par. I have those results from blood testing so I am actually allergic and sensitive. I will know more after the 4 month adventure where I can hardly eat anything. LOL. Thanks for the pointer.
Thank you SO MUCH for this wonderful information! I will definitely be re-posting this.
There is a fellow named Fermenti who has delved into the science of how current commonly used probiotics are weaponizing our microbiome. He shows us how to re-wild our microbiome with sauerkraut, but I think he has a special way of doing it. Not sure if that is a fact though.
Here's his Rumble page, for what it's worth. Unfortunately, his video updates aren't that well-labeled, but if you dig and parse, you'll hit gold.
Hello All. I'm curious.......I totally understand the premise of adding bacteria from our environment into the fermentation process with the understanding, it can only help us. Being new to the art, why is it important to have a sterile vessel when our hands manipulating the ingredients certainly aren't sterile, not does it appear we want them to be? Can you inadvertently create something that could make you very sick? I know its totally different but much like you can grow a fantastic batch of botulinum toxin with some herbs and olive oil in a sealed container. Just curious why the sterile container is needed vice a clear and dry one? Thanks............."obviously the rookie in the group"
In reality, I do not obsess over making sure the fermentation vessel is literally "sterilized", but rather I just use hot soapy and water to remove debris, rinsing well. This is essentially to even the scales (microbially speaking).
I actually wrote that recipe for book (which I copy pasted into the article above) many years ago and my approach, attitude and understanding regarding fermenting foods has evolved since then, so I am gonna edit the recipe above to reflect that and just say washed with hot soapy water and rinsed well, rather than "sterilize".
The idea with using relatively clean fermentation vessels to start with is just so that once you put the bruised cabbage (or other veggies/brine) in there to begin fermenting, there is a higher likelihood of the lactic acid bacteria (that are ubiquitous on the surface of organic veggies) to dominate the resulting community of life that one is propagating. It would probably be fine either way (unless one left something really gross containing abundant problematic bacterial/mold species in the jar before adding things to ferment) but washing the jars out increases the odds that the microorganisms that do you want growing in there, get a good head start. Even when I do just a rushed cleaning and rinse I only get maybe 1 in 50 batches go off (and that is usually due to me adding wacky ingredients that are harder to wild ferment and it is easily discernable on the rare occasions it does happen).
"Can you inadvertently create something that could make you very sick?"
The great thing about fermenting veggies is that you get very clear visual and smell/taste signs of a batch that has 'gone bad' (become dominated by species of bacteria or mold that are not conducive with human health when taken internally). If it has that distinct acidic tangy flavor and there are not signs of mold or other weird growths on the surface, your good to go and can trust it is safe to eat. The presence of a tangy acidic brine indicates the lactic acid bacteria have dominated, leaving no room for problematic species to pose a risk to your health.
With heat treated canned foods (which the producer claims to have "pasteurized") you do not get that same benefit of being able to trust your senses, as something like Botulism could occur and may not be detected when you go to eat it.
That could be reason number 31 for why fermenting food is more trust worthy than hot water canning or other heat based preservation methods (not to mention fermenting retains and enhances nutrition while heating destroys or diminishes many nutrients). I do make some jams, stuff like elderberry syrup and pickles and stuff via hot water bath method for keeping in our upstairs pantry but I always prefer fermenting and cellar storage when possible.
Thanks for the response. You explain it very well. So in summary, if it tastes or smells bad, it's probably bad? We rely on our super smart human body to discern whats best for us and whats not. It makes sense even though we're taught we shouldn't trust our own intuition and only those super smart god like lab coat folks. I'm sure the chemistry of it is a huge part. Chemistry is life and everything in it. I would think generally the acidic environment would have a huge effect on what survives and what doesn't. I certainly don't have enough knowledge to discuss how that effects positive and negative bacteria for our microbiome. Cool conversation and thanks for the very thoughtful response.
"So in summary, if it tastes or smells bad, it's probably bad?"
Well the reason I said "tangy" (and no mold) to describe what "good" (edible and safe) fermented veggies taste and smell like was to be less ambiguous and to avoid leaving it open to interpretation. What tastes "good" or "bad" to one person, can be the opposite for another, it is subjective. For instance, when I ferment 100% kale leaves to make Nepalese "Gundruk", most people who are not familiar with fermented foods would taste the finished product and say it tastes/smells "bad" (it is very pungent, earthy and sour/tangy) however, it is totally safe and fermented in an ideal way. So I say tangy, as that is a more specific indicator of an ideal PH range which inhibits the growth of harmful bacteria/mold.
I will respond to this in more depth when I have time but here are a few links for other descriptions and means to discern when you have a "bad" batch of fermented veggies (it is quite obvious and not sneaky like with botulism and canned food, so do not worry about experimenting if you follow the guidelines I shared above).
I have heard that one way to stop the hiccups is by drinking some fermented brine. The example used in the context I heard this was using pickle brine. I have only had the opportunity to try it once with some homemade salt pickle brine and it worked.
That's interesting! I'll keep that in mind. I know if I have been feeling sick to my stomach (I usually do activated charcoal and/or zeolite clay) when I do finally feel like eating again, what I usually feel like having is something tart and salty. Tart green apple with salt, fresh pineapple with salt. I'm not sure why that is, but when I'm not really interested in eating anything else, when I think to myself, what do I really feel like eating, it's usually something tart and salty. So it makes sense to me that the pickle brine would be a good thing after you feel sick to your stomach.
That is fascinating thanks for sharing that Donna.
When I was young, my dad taught me to stop hiccups by going into a sort of meditative state (closing my eyes, becoming aware of my breath, calming down and slowing down my heart rate consciously) and this always seems to work great for me.
That being said, I do think I will try the fermented veggie brine next time I get hiccups (just out of curiosity) :) Thanks for the comment.
Take ten to 15 cabbages. Slice all. Place a layer in a new, washed garbage can. Sprinkle several tablespoons of salt on top. Repeat until you have 18” of space on top left. Fill 1/3 black garbage bag with water and tie. Place on top to seal. Check edges are sealed. Leave in the garage for two months or more in the fall. (The product is not sour or salty. It is mild tasting). Scoop 4 or more cups to have with baked ham and potatoes or pork. Have with hot Italian sausages. And scalloped potatoes. Many more. I made sourkraut every fall for decades. Once done, half can also be canned for the next year. Really easy. Great nutrients and a staple vegetable source. Obviously I also canned fruits and jams. I don’t understand why young people do all of the work for such tiny quantities today when they can do all in august - September and have a huge larder for the winter. Be free from supply chains and grocery stores. Consider a garden. Cheers all! Ps, get that info from us old grannies before this knowledge is gone.
Thanks so much for sharing your experiences and interesting method. First of all, I would like you to know that I admire your go getter attitude, your DIY approach and your attitude about being free from supply lines and dependency on grocery stores for one's basic survival needs.
In a survival situation where I found my self with a huge pile of cabbages, some salt, a garbage can and did not have access to alternative (more ideal) fermentation vessels, I think I would likely do something like you suggest (though in most situations, one can find access to cheap and/or free glass containers). That being said, I share the concerns expressed by Donna with regards to the potential for leaching various plastic (petroleum based) compounds into the finished product if one is using an every day garbage can as a fermentation vessel. I did use a food safe 5 gallon bucket to make a big batch of kimchi one time when I had all my other large crocks and glass containers full already, and that seemed to work fine, but I always prefer working with glass or ceramic (preferably not made in China) when it is available to me.
I have some friends in the viticulture industry who use old oak wine barrels to make huge batches of sauerkraut and that turns out beautifully. Perhaps if you talked to a winery near where you live, you might be able to acquire one for free or cheaply? I think something like a wooden wine barrel would be a great way to do massive batches of sauerkraut while avoiding the potential of the leaching of harmful substances from a plastic or metal fermentation vessel.
I would not make sauerkraut or any kind of fermented food in plastic container, especially one that is not 'food safe' because in the process of fermenting in plastic things are going to leech out into your food. If you want to make a large volume at a time you can buy large ceramic crocks in various sizes that are designed and created from materials designed to be used for fermenting vegetables.
Yes (as Donna astutely and thoughtfully pointed out) you can culture veggies (like cabbage) to ferment them using LAB rich substances such as whey and kick start/accelerate the fermentation process. If I am culturing (vs encouraging "wild" or spontaneous fermentation to occur) my veggie ferments I typically use some of the brine from another currently actively fermenting batch of fermented veggies I have going (the slang for this is "back slopping"). Typically I only culture veggie ferments (as in introduce a LAB rich source of liquid from another ferment) when I am working with ingredients that have a higher likelihood of leaning more towards a yeast/alcohol based fermentation (such as berries or high sugar veggies) as it helps to push the fermentation process more in the direction of lactic acid bacteria dominance (vs having my carrot and elderberry laced sauerkraut start to develop kahm yeast on the brine surface). I also culture 100% of the time when I am making fermented foods such as Miso paste, as cultivating (encouraging spontaneous growth of) Koji mold from scratch requires very specific conditions and I like to add some mature miso paste from a finished batch to inoculate the cooked beans and rice with LAB as well to help point the ferment in the 'right' direction.
However, in most cases, (as when I am making more basic sauerkraut and kimchi recipes) I prefer to go the route of "wild" (spontaneous) fermentation as this encourages a more diverse range of probiotic species to set up shop in my end product. It is also worth keeping in mind (in both the context of "back slopping" aka culturing, and in the context of when you choose to begin eating or storing your ferment in the fridge) that as the fermentation process proceeds different species will exist in higher concentrations depending on the acidity of the fermented veggie material and brine. In other words, the longer it ferments, the more acidic (tangy) the sauerkraut will get (which I love the taste of my self) but this also means a more narrow range of LAB species will be capable of surviving in that increasingly acidic environment the longer it sits at room temp. Thus, whether it is for optimizing culturing or eating to maximize the diversity of probiotic species being ingested, I personally like to eat some of the sauerkraut at different stages and I try to culture using brine from a very active ferment (vs a mature highly acidic ferment that has been sitting around for a while) as to maximize the spectrum of probiotic species I am ingesting and/or inoculating another ferment with.
Another way of looking at this fermentation process is that the lactobacilli and other good microbes that carry it out make their environment hospitable to themselves but inhospitable to any microorganisms that could spoil the vegetables for human consumption. This is why "wild" (or spontaneously) fermenting vegetables under brine has been a wholesome way to preserve food for thousands of years. When you eat wild fermented foods, you are ingesting living lactobacilli and other microbes that become part of our gut microbiome, where they continue their work of dismantling our food into its component nutrients and feeding them to us through our intestinal wall. Cultured ferments also provide these same benefits, just with a more narrow spectrum of LAB species.
Nature favors diversity. A diverse ecosystem, whether in a forest or in our gut, is the source of health. That’s because a healthy ecosystem is characterized by checks and balances where no one organism can cause trouble. When the gut microbiome is well supplied with a diversity of probiotic microbes, its health benefits are maximized. That’s why when ever possible, I prefer 'wild' fermentation.
It's true, adding some of the whey will help get the fermentation going more quickly, and add a different profile of bacteria. In addition to the salt and cabbage, adding brine from a previous ferment will also get the fermentation process started more quickly. Salt and cabbage is all that's needed, but as you say in your other comment, experimenting is fun!
It's true what you say that it's not needed, but what John says is true too, adding some of the whey will help get the fermentation going more quickly. It will also add a different profile of bacteria. In addition to the salt and cabbage, adding brine from a previous ferment will also get the fermentation process started more quickly.
I been making pies for close to 50 years, I know the best way to do it but I still experiment. That's half the fun I get out of cooking. The more I experiment, the more often my experiments work.
I have questions about my current batch. Is there a forum or a way to communicate with others who may be able to help me with any issues or questions?
Hey Steve!
Well I suppose this post is a close a thing as I have for being a forum for food fermenters to communicate about that topic amongst each other.
I can also share tips and hints based on what I have learned if you have questions about a batch of kraut.
What are you curious about?
So I made my first batch using 2 colors of cabbage, grated radish, turmeric, carrot, garlic, apple, some kale, black peppercorns, salt and water. I have tons of brine and everything is covered. It's bubbling like a champ. My concern is the globs of what looks like scoby in kombucha or the mother in vinegar. I can't really find out what to do with it, if anything. There's no mold. It smells great and is beautiful (dont know how to post a pic here). It was a process. The initial sterilization of the first container resulted in a boiling water bath for my legs and feet and a mess of glass everywhere. Learned a lesson. The day after I got the blood test results of my food sensitivity testing and found out nearly everything in the kraut I'm sensitive and allergic to as well as all yeast. I have to do a 4 month food elimination and reintroduction process but am waiting for a convenient time. It's unfortunate but hopefully it'll solve some long standing health challenges. Anyway, what to do about the sludge (brown) and the brine is a little brown also. Its coming up on day 7 so I'm really looking forward to trying it. Thanks
Wow that batch sounds amazing! If she is bubbling like a champ then maybe the "blobs" are Kahm yeast starting to form? If I see any globby stuff or floating anomalous items/substances near the surface of the brine I just open it up and use a fork or spoon to scoop as much out as I can (to give my LAB friends a leg up on any competitor bacteria or fungi they might be fighting it out with in there). If the CO-2 is being produced (bubbling) and the brine is tangy after a week or so then the LAB will have outcompeted any problematic organisms making the contents in a PH range where it should be safe to eat.
How does the brine smell?
Could you send a few pics via email? it may help me assess the status of the ferment more precisely
Ohh man that exploding jar situation sounds brutal! I did that with a jar I was using to make a cup of tea once, the jar exploded and the water landed on my poor cat (she is healed up now but does have a bald patch on her back I feel bad about).
The food sensitivity discovery sounds challenging as well. Have you ever tried Dr. Zack Bush's Ion Gut Health product? I know a few people that tried it and found that they actually had leaky gut syndrome and once the healing was complete many of the things they thought they were allergic to or sensitive to, were not an issue anymore.
Color of the brine can be impacted by the ingredients and not necessarily a problem.
Hope this helps my friend
Forgot. Smells slightly peppery and really good. Not vinegar but strong.
Thanks. I'll email the pics. I have read about his stuff and used the nasal spray for years eliminating sinus infections for the most par. I have those results from blood testing so I am actually allergic and sensitive. I will know more after the 4 month adventure where I can hardly eat anything. LOL. Thanks for the pointer.
That pics look great ! I think that foamy stuff on the surface is nothing to worry about. I would just scoop it out and your good to go!
I can tell from the CO-2 expulsion visible as bubbles against the glass surface that it is fermenting well.
If the bubbling is subsiding now you could wait a day or two more and put in fridge for long term storage.
Nice work my friend! It looks super nutritious :)
Thanks Gavin. Would you drain any of the liquid or keep it? I plan on transferring to mason jars.
Awesome stack! I will link it in my article on Fermented food/Microbiome/Aura , hope that is ok ;)
Cheers
🙌🙌🙌👆✌️🫱🥗🍎🥬♥️♥️♥️😁✨👍💕🙏
Thank you SO MUCH for this wonderful information! I will definitely be re-posting this.
There is a fellow named Fermenti who has delved into the science of how current commonly used probiotics are weaponizing our microbiome. He shows us how to re-wild our microbiome with sauerkraut, but I think he has a special way of doing it. Not sure if that is a fact though.
Here's his Rumble page, for what it's worth. Unfortunately, his video updates aren't that well-labeled, but if you dig and parse, you'll hit gold.
https://rumble.com/v4241q5-digibiomenews-121923.html
Love reason #10: Since sulfur helps us structure our body's water, it would make sense that sauerkraut is a form of EMF insulation for us: https://romanshapoval.substack.com/i/120334740/how-i-structure-my-water
I eat saurkraut almost everyday! I make it myself. Thank you for the informative info on this wonderful food!
Hello All. I'm curious.......I totally understand the premise of adding bacteria from our environment into the fermentation process with the understanding, it can only help us. Being new to the art, why is it important to have a sterile vessel when our hands manipulating the ingredients certainly aren't sterile, not does it appear we want them to be? Can you inadvertently create something that could make you very sick? I know its totally different but much like you can grow a fantastic batch of botulinum toxin with some herbs and olive oil in a sealed container. Just curious why the sterile container is needed vice a clear and dry one? Thanks............."obviously the rookie in the group"
Good eye and great questions Steve.
In reality, I do not obsess over making sure the fermentation vessel is literally "sterilized", but rather I just use hot soapy and water to remove debris, rinsing well. This is essentially to even the scales (microbially speaking).
I actually wrote that recipe for book (which I copy pasted into the article above) many years ago and my approach, attitude and understanding regarding fermenting foods has evolved since then, so I am gonna edit the recipe above to reflect that and just say washed with hot soapy water and rinsed well, rather than "sterilize".
The idea with using relatively clean fermentation vessels to start with is just so that once you put the bruised cabbage (or other veggies/brine) in there to begin fermenting, there is a higher likelihood of the lactic acid bacteria (that are ubiquitous on the surface of organic veggies) to dominate the resulting community of life that one is propagating. It would probably be fine either way (unless one left something really gross containing abundant problematic bacterial/mold species in the jar before adding things to ferment) but washing the jars out increases the odds that the microorganisms that do you want growing in there, get a good head start. Even when I do just a rushed cleaning and rinse I only get maybe 1 in 50 batches go off (and that is usually due to me adding wacky ingredients that are harder to wild ferment and it is easily discernable on the rare occasions it does happen).
"Can you inadvertently create something that could make you very sick?"
The great thing about fermenting veggies is that you get very clear visual and smell/taste signs of a batch that has 'gone bad' (become dominated by species of bacteria or mold that are not conducive with human health when taken internally). If it has that distinct acidic tangy flavor and there are not signs of mold or other weird growths on the surface, your good to go and can trust it is safe to eat. The presence of a tangy acidic brine indicates the lactic acid bacteria have dominated, leaving no room for problematic species to pose a risk to your health.
With heat treated canned foods (which the producer claims to have "pasteurized") you do not get that same benefit of being able to trust your senses, as something like Botulism could occur and may not be detected when you go to eat it.
That could be reason number 31 for why fermenting food is more trust worthy than hot water canning or other heat based preservation methods (not to mention fermenting retains and enhances nutrition while heating destroys or diminishes many nutrients). I do make some jams, stuff like elderberry syrup and pickles and stuff via hot water bath method for keeping in our upstairs pantry but I always prefer fermenting and cellar storage when possible.
Thanks for the helpful comment and questions.
Thanks for the response. You explain it very well. So in summary, if it tastes or smells bad, it's probably bad? We rely on our super smart human body to discern whats best for us and whats not. It makes sense even though we're taught we shouldn't trust our own intuition and only those super smart god like lab coat folks. I'm sure the chemistry of it is a huge part. Chemistry is life and everything in it. I would think generally the acidic environment would have a huge effect on what survives and what doesn't. I certainly don't have enough knowledge to discuss how that effects positive and negative bacteria for our microbiome. Cool conversation and thanks for the very thoughtful response.
Happy to help! :)
"So in summary, if it tastes or smells bad, it's probably bad?"
Well the reason I said "tangy" (and no mold) to describe what "good" (edible and safe) fermented veggies taste and smell like was to be less ambiguous and to avoid leaving it open to interpretation. What tastes "good" or "bad" to one person, can be the opposite for another, it is subjective. For instance, when I ferment 100% kale leaves to make Nepalese "Gundruk", most people who are not familiar with fermented foods would taste the finished product and say it tastes/smells "bad" (it is very pungent, earthy and sour/tangy) however, it is totally safe and fermented in an ideal way. So I say tangy, as that is a more specific indicator of an ideal PH range which inhibits the growth of harmful bacteria/mold.
I will respond to this in more depth when I have time but here are a few links for other descriptions and means to discern when you have a "bad" batch of fermented veggies (it is quite obvious and not sneaky like with botulism and canned food, so do not worry about experimenting if you follow the guidelines I shared above).
- https://ferment.works/troubleshooting-fermented-vegetables/2014/8/13/can-i-still-eat-this-kraut
- https://fermentmakers.com/signs-sauerkraut-has-gone-bad/
- https://www.makesauerkraut.com/sauerkraut-fermentation-gone-bad-troubleshooting-tips/
Thanks for the comment Steve.
Thank YOU.
Also want to apologize for all the typos. Typos are my superpower!!
I have heard that one way to stop the hiccups is by drinking some fermented brine. The example used in the context I heard this was using pickle brine. I have only had the opportunity to try it once with some homemade salt pickle brine and it worked.
Whenever I feel sick to my stomach I drink 1/4 cup pickle brine and it always does the trick.
That's interesting! I'll keep that in mind. I know if I have been feeling sick to my stomach (I usually do activated charcoal and/or zeolite clay) when I do finally feel like eating again, what I usually feel like having is something tart and salty. Tart green apple with salt, fresh pineapple with salt. I'm not sure why that is, but when I'm not really interested in eating anything else, when I think to myself, what do I really feel like eating, it's usually something tart and salty. So it makes sense to me that the pickle brine would be a good thing after you feel sick to your stomach.
That is fascinating thanks for sharing that Donna.
When I was young, my dad taught me to stop hiccups by going into a sort of meditative state (closing my eyes, becoming aware of my breath, calming down and slowing down my heart rate consciously) and this always seems to work great for me.
That being said, I do think I will try the fermented veggie brine next time I get hiccups (just out of curiosity) :) Thanks for the comment.
I use a lemon wedge dipped in sugar and a few dashes of cocktail bitters. Its worked since I was a little kid.
Take ten to 15 cabbages. Slice all. Place a layer in a new, washed garbage can. Sprinkle several tablespoons of salt on top. Repeat until you have 18” of space on top left. Fill 1/3 black garbage bag with water and tie. Place on top to seal. Check edges are sealed. Leave in the garage for two months or more in the fall. (The product is not sour or salty. It is mild tasting). Scoop 4 or more cups to have with baked ham and potatoes or pork. Have with hot Italian sausages. And scalloped potatoes. Many more. I made sourkraut every fall for decades. Once done, half can also be canned for the next year. Really easy. Great nutrients and a staple vegetable source. Obviously I also canned fruits and jams. I don’t understand why young people do all of the work for such tiny quantities today when they can do all in august - September and have a huge larder for the winter. Be free from supply chains and grocery stores. Consider a garden. Cheers all! Ps, get that info from us old grannies before this knowledge is gone.
Hi Linda
Thanks so much for sharing your experiences and interesting method. First of all, I would like you to know that I admire your go getter attitude, your DIY approach and your attitude about being free from supply lines and dependency on grocery stores for one's basic survival needs.
In a survival situation where I found my self with a huge pile of cabbages, some salt, a garbage can and did not have access to alternative (more ideal) fermentation vessels, I think I would likely do something like you suggest (though in most situations, one can find access to cheap and/or free glass containers). That being said, I share the concerns expressed by Donna with regards to the potential for leaching various plastic (petroleum based) compounds into the finished product if one is using an every day garbage can as a fermentation vessel. I did use a food safe 5 gallon bucket to make a big batch of kimchi one time when I had all my other large crocks and glass containers full already, and that seemed to work fine, but I always prefer working with glass or ceramic (preferably not made in China) when it is available to me.
I have some friends in the viticulture industry who use old oak wine barrels to make huge batches of sauerkraut and that turns out beautifully. Perhaps if you talked to a winery near where you live, you might be able to acquire one for free or cheaply? I think something like a wooden wine barrel would be a great way to do massive batches of sauerkraut while avoiding the potential of the leaching of harmful substances from a plastic or metal fermentation vessel.
I would not make sauerkraut or any kind of fermented food in plastic container, especially one that is not 'food safe' because in the process of fermenting in plastic things are going to leech out into your food. If you want to make a large volume at a time you can buy large ceramic crocks in various sizes that are designed and created from materials designed to be used for fermenting vegetables.
Hey Gavin. I've been told that a bit of whey (i.e. from yogurt) is a good thing to add get the fermentation going. I'll try it next time.
Greetings my friend!
Yes (as Donna astutely and thoughtfully pointed out) you can culture veggies (like cabbage) to ferment them using LAB rich substances such as whey and kick start/accelerate the fermentation process. If I am culturing (vs encouraging "wild" or spontaneous fermentation to occur) my veggie ferments I typically use some of the brine from another currently actively fermenting batch of fermented veggies I have going (the slang for this is "back slopping"). Typically I only culture veggie ferments (as in introduce a LAB rich source of liquid from another ferment) when I am working with ingredients that have a higher likelihood of leaning more towards a yeast/alcohol based fermentation (such as berries or high sugar veggies) as it helps to push the fermentation process more in the direction of lactic acid bacteria dominance (vs having my carrot and elderberry laced sauerkraut start to develop kahm yeast on the brine surface). I also culture 100% of the time when I am making fermented foods such as Miso paste, as cultivating (encouraging spontaneous growth of) Koji mold from scratch requires very specific conditions and I like to add some mature miso paste from a finished batch to inoculate the cooked beans and rice with LAB as well to help point the ferment in the 'right' direction.
However, in most cases, (as when I am making more basic sauerkraut and kimchi recipes) I prefer to go the route of "wild" (spontaneous) fermentation as this encourages a more diverse range of probiotic species to set up shop in my end product. It is also worth keeping in mind (in both the context of "back slopping" aka culturing, and in the context of when you choose to begin eating or storing your ferment in the fridge) that as the fermentation process proceeds different species will exist in higher concentrations depending on the acidity of the fermented veggie material and brine. In other words, the longer it ferments, the more acidic (tangy) the sauerkraut will get (which I love the taste of my self) but this also means a more narrow range of LAB species will be capable of surviving in that increasingly acidic environment the longer it sits at room temp. Thus, whether it is for optimizing culturing or eating to maximize the diversity of probiotic species being ingested, I personally like to eat some of the sauerkraut at different stages and I try to culture using brine from a very active ferment (vs a mature highly acidic ferment that has been sitting around for a while) as to maximize the spectrum of probiotic species I am ingesting and/or inoculating another ferment with.
Another way of looking at this fermentation process is that the lactobacilli and other good microbes that carry it out make their environment hospitable to themselves but inhospitable to any microorganisms that could spoil the vegetables for human consumption. This is why "wild" (or spontaneously) fermenting vegetables under brine has been a wholesome way to preserve food for thousands of years. When you eat wild fermented foods, you are ingesting living lactobacilli and other microbes that become part of our gut microbiome, where they continue their work of dismantling our food into its component nutrients and feeding them to us through our intestinal wall. Cultured ferments also provide these same benefits, just with a more narrow spectrum of LAB species.
Nature favors diversity. A diverse ecosystem, whether in a forest or in our gut, is the source of health. That’s because a healthy ecosystem is characterized by checks and balances where no one organism can cause trouble. When the gut microbiome is well supplied with a diversity of probiotic microbes, its health benefits are maximized. That’s why when ever possible, I prefer 'wild' fermentation.
Good info, thanks Gavin.
It's true, adding some of the whey will help get the fermentation going more quickly, and add a different profile of bacteria. In addition to the salt and cabbage, adding brine from a previous ferment will also get the fermentation process started more quickly. Salt and cabbage is all that's needed, but as you say in your other comment, experimenting is fun!
Not needed. Sauerkraut has been made for many generations with just cabbage and salt. I have done it for decades.
It's true what you say that it's not needed, but what John says is true too, adding some of the whey will help get the fermentation going more quickly. It will also add a different profile of bacteria. In addition to the salt and cabbage, adding brine from a previous ferment will also get the fermentation process started more quickly.
Cool. Previous ferment, I had pondered that. I'll try that too, next time. I have a lot of sauerkraut to eat before next time.
I been making pies for close to 50 years, I know the best way to do it but I still experiment. That's half the fun I get out of cooking. The more I experiment, the more often my experiments work.
So needed or not, I'll try it next time.