An excellent post, Gavin. Thank you for this. Have you also written about the Irish words for animals and nature you've found? I've found a few examples of the familial names you describe. One being wolf, which is Mac Tíre, or son of the land. Another for yarrow, which is Athair Thalún, or Father Earth.
Another example of the horrors which occur when we allow and encourage the marriage between church and state (as all modern statist regimes are subservient to edicts of and complicit in perpetuating the racketeering operations of Big Pharma).
In western Ireland, where a mass grave for almost 800 children was unearthed at a Catholic Church facility for unwed mothers and their children in 2014. Most of the bodies were dumped in a sewage tank.
Kids were secretly vaccinated against diphtheria in the 1930s in medical trials undertaken by international drugs giant Burroughs Wellcome, Irish media reveal. Among the testing sites was a discovered mass grave.
The medical records cited by the Irish Daily Mail show that some 2,051 children and babies across several Irish care homes may have been subjected to the practice.
Michael Dwyer, of Cork University’s School of History, found the data after foraging through tens of thousands of archive files and old medical journals. What he did not find is whether any consent was gained for these alleged illegal drug trials or any records of the effects on the infants involved.
Dwyer discovered that the tests were carried out shortly before the drugs were made readily available in the UK.
That was a common, but ill-documented practice at such Catholic-run facilities amid high child mortality rates in early 20th century Ireland.
"In 2014, unmarked mass graves belonging to Irish orphans were discovered. Further research revealed these graves belonged to a group of 2,051 children on which an early and dangerous diphtheria vaccine was covertly tested on in the 1930s. This unethical human experimentation on Irish children (including infants and handicapped children) continued at least through the 1960s and 1970s at Irish care homes, where a separate investigation found early Tetanus, Diptheria and Pertussis vaccinations were covertly tested on these children."
This is a disappointing read from you Gavin. If you can get over your knee-jerk antiChristian stance, the following brief post might help you better think through a more complete picture of St. Patrick and the special blend of Catholicism and folk religion that makes Irish Christianity so beautiful.
Mounsey has an interesting take. Seems like every time someone dares to fall out of lock step with christ-insane dogma the pious knee- jerking nitpickers accuse him/her of being "anti-christian". Your monotheistic mind-virus has over a thousand sects but of course, yours is the real McCoy and the rest are false, riiiiight!
Here's something to help YOU think....... if that's possible:
Christianity's Criminal History by Deschner
The Darkening Age by Nixey
Most anything by Bart Ehrman
Read them if you dare and don't counter with some apologetics crap, which is just christian pilpulling.
I think you must have only read part of the post and/or misunderstood my views of Christianity and the teachings of wise and courageous people such as Jesus of Nazareth and others close to him. Perhaps this will provide some clarification:
I am not "anti-Christian", however, I am opposed to any system, institution or rhetoric that encourages imperialism, violence, superiority delusion complexes, oppression and anthropocentrism. I am opposed to those cowardly, hubristic and immoral actions and viewpoints whether they are promoted by someone describing themselves as an Atheist or a Christian or a Druid or a Muslim or an Indigenous person. Bullies and tyrants can wear all sorts of veils under which they attempt to obscure their malice and their cowardice, and religiosity is a favorite to wear as a camouflage.
Jesus was clearly a man that did not advocate nor condone violence, thus, anyone claiming to follow his teachings while also condoning/supporting institutions that are built upon and perpetuated by violence, imperialism, superiority delusion complexes, oppression and anthropocentrism, are hypocrites.
The merging of Church and State (via Constantine's carefully manipulated Council of Nicaea) is where the institutions describing themselves as Christian began to become corrupted.
You see the kinds of duplicity and nefarious propaganda that can be disseminated through institutions that are labelled as Christian when the state becomes mingled within ?
Statism (a system where organized criminals use violence and coercion to feed on a population like a parasite) is not compatible with the teachings of Jesus.
Nor is statism compatible with the Druidic teachings, for as I clearly described in my essay on Why Involuntary Governance Structures are Not Compatible with The Permaculture Ethical Compass, Statism is antithetical to ecological integrity, and maintaining ecological integrity was at the heart of the Druidic animist belief system.
What are your thoughts on the pre-Christian culture of Ireland? Do you feel that was a beautiful culture? If not, why not? If so, why?
Thank you for the loving prayers. You need not worry, I am in good relations with the Creator of all things as I surrender myself to be an instrument of his will through living in service of life.
Just as Jesus called out the corrupt scribes and pharisees, we too must strive to live by his example and call out the corruption in our midst. Even if this corruption exists within institutions we have been raised to trust and respect by the generation before us. It is sacred work, and I invite you to join me in this work.
You’re all over the place in this one, man. It’s just poorly written, poorly argued, poorly researched in a lot of places that I can see - you come out swinging, but not strong. Your arguments are incoherent: the thrust of this article seems to be that people (Irish natives? Irish diaspora? Non-Irish? Non-Catholic? Not clear) should not celebrate St. Patrick’s day because… the British empire oppressed the people of Ireland and despoiled the land, over a thousand years later? Because propaganda after Patrick’s death depicted him as more bloodthirsty and zealous than more contemporary accounts? Because he did not preserve the pre-Christian culture of Ireland in its entirety? Because he was not an Irish native (instead he was abducted into slavery on Ireland and came to love the land and its people despite that initial contact)?
You don’t have a strong thesis, and/or you don’t articulate it well. Your strongest point, which really only becomes clear at the very end of this piece, is that the culture and history of Ireland is more than just St. Patrick’s day. Maybe if you were more careful in your writing, that would have come through more effectively. Or maybe an argument that the current emphasis on St. Patrick’s day (which is already largely a celebration of secular capitalism, and hardly a mid-lenten feast of a Catholic saint) obscures the richness of Irish culture. But to glean that much from this piece is a real stretch and requires a lot of work on the part of your readers.
You spend a huge portion of this article attacking Nicene Christianity (which is the Christian Church, by the way - I grant that people outside the Church may not agree that it is the only way to be a follower of Christ, but through the last 2000 years the vast majority of people who considered themselves Christian were and are followers of Nicene Christianity). I hope you can understand how that makes you come across as anti-Christian.
If your opposition to Nicene Christianity is, as you argue, an opposition to involuntary governance structures, gnosticism was the wrong position to align yourself with. Gnosticism is a theurgical position predating Christianity that adopted certain Christian motifs and ideas as Christianity became more widespread in the Mediterranean (and later through Europe), like alchemy and magic (see the Greco-Egyptian magical papyri, the Emerald Tablet, the whole Hermetic corpus really). Like alchemy and magic, gnosticism is some of the most hardcore involuntary governance you could imagine; it’s the antecedent of secret societies like the Illuminati, Freemasonry, the WEF. Gnosticism holds that enlightenment (gnosis) - and, when it adopts aspects of Christianity, salvation - is only available to a select few elite through initiation into secret mysteries. Not the way forward for ecological integrity and certainly not compatible with the permaculture ethical compass, especially as you describe it in your referenced article. While I understand your mistrust of institutions including Christian institutions, Christianity was and is a radically democratic religion: the basis for modern human rights is the concept that all human beings are made in the image of God and deserve respect, with none being greater or lesser (Genesis 1:26-27 and 5:1-3, 1 Corinthians 11:7 and 15:47-49, 2 Corinthians 3:18. Maybe that’s still too anthropocentric for your tastes, but you haven’t made an effective case for an alternative model.
How do you square your assertion that Jesus did not advocate nor condone violence with his driving out the moneylenders from the Temple? This is an important instance, attested in the 4 canonical gospels (Matthew 21:12-17, Mark 11:15-19, Luke 19:45-48, John 2:13-16) of calling out corruption in his time, which is clearly an aspect of his teaching that you agree with. Jesus taught peace, but not passivity. I would say if you have respect for Jesus the man, and his teachings, that is something you should recognize.
The pre-Christian culture of Ireland is fascinating and in many ways beautiful. However, I can’t bring myself to be totally on board with ritual human sacrifice and slavery - two aspects of the culture which St. Patrick worked hard to end. I have no doubt that other aspects of the pre-Christian Irish culture were lost or altered in the conversion to Christianity, but there is a tremendous continuity. The lifting stones of the Druidic culture often became points at churches and central crossroads (see David Keohan’s chronicling of his rediscovery of these stones). During the British occupation of Ireland, the hedge schools which you admire - which preserved the Irish language, the knowledge of the Ogham script, the Brehon culture - were primarily taught by Catholic priests. (See e.g. PJ Dowling’s Hedge Schools Of Ireland, also the memoirs of Diana Beresford-Kroeger such as Our Green Heart)
There was a lot of nuance to be had here that you missed. In the alternative, I don’t think you argued coherently enough for a strong polemic. Not everyone is an orthodox Christian and that is okay (although some of my fellow Christians would disagree with that); in my view European Christianity is beautiful in part for the syncretic incorporation of pre-Christian tradition. But this essay didn’t just disagree with me theologically. It could have used much more work before you published it.
If you’re not familiar with Diana Beresford-Kroeger, she’s a biomedical scientist who has written extensively on trees. Also the last (known) student to receive a Druidic/Brehon education in Ireland. She’s based in South Ontario now too, that’s your area. I haven’t been following your book club posts so you may already be familiar with her work, but I think it would be worth your while to investigate her if not.
All in all this got me to think more about Druidic Ireland and Christian Ireland in the Middle Ages, so thanks for writing even though I didn’t like the article.
Could it be that your criticism of my research and writing, is less about the content, and more about the fact that you have put institutions on a pedestal that have a long history of mass murder and abuse of children, and you are attempting to deflect and engage in scarecrow arguments because you are in denial about the church and desperate to avoid an honest assessment of the atrocities that institution has perpetrated on humanity?
You make a good point about Jesus calling out those money changing con artists (wannabe banksters) in the temple and flipping over some tables. It is a great example that shows how no human being is perfect (Jesus included). Despite the strong sense of morality and inward spiritual connection he chose to cultivate in his life, he had moments where he lost his temper. That said, flipping over some tables and yelling at people is not the same as killing another human, or inciting humans to kill millions of other humans (which is what Constantine and Augustine's "Just War" propaganda and the Doctrine Of Discovery did). In the article I was talking about the teachings of the man, and he taught tolerance, peaceful resistance in the face of tyranny and treating others as you want to be treated.
Pointing your finger accusingly and saying "human sacrifice" is such a played out, clearly desperate and weak tactic, as saoirse apty points out, the institutions you place on a pedestal actively sacrifice and mass murder humans.
The teachings of the wise human named Jesus are worth learning from, the fraudulent, imperialistic and nefarious institutions humans built up around his name are degenerative and systemically corrupt.
How pompous of you to tell Mounsey how to structure an article so as not to bore your pretentious self.
Also, you wrote: "However, I can’t bring myself to be totally on board with ritual human sacrifice and slavery". LOL, surely you jest! You're the follower (a.k a. sheep) of a religion based on human sacrifice and whose (un)holy book is rife with slaughter and slavery - which have been acted on thousands of times since it's inception. Get over yourself! Before you pilpul us again, read the books I mentioned above.
Gavin clearly tries to write at a high level of detail and an argumentative essay like this ought to be held to a high standard. His writing is unconvincing, I’m doing him a favor in explaining why.
Nixey is stuck on the myth of the “dark ages” and Ehrman flip flops and aggrandizes himself too much to be useful as anything other than a reference for translation studies.
Drescher is a lot more clear I grant you but you’re a massive hypocrite to be relying on a nazi/white nationalist for anti-statist/anti-involuntary governance arguments.
Stepford wife of christ; you have no favors to offer just more priggish self-aggrandizement and pooh poohing of authors you'll never read. Run along, your priest has another 'revelation' to give you as you bend over in supplication. Dope is apropos.
Your self-esteem depends on your having the last word so have at it.
I found this article really interesting. I don’t buy a lot of it, but I learned some more about druids and ancient peoples which is interesting. I also got many things to look into! I can’t square making St Patrick be a predecessor of Cromwell and the English, that seems “beyond the pale” or perhaps a better way to put it would be “within the pale”, since we are talking about Irish history.
I think you’d find what the germanic celts built quite interesting. There arent a lot of accounts of their great works after the roman empire except in accounts of Charlemagne. To get the best versions of the story you’ll want to read the original stories, the “modern scholars” spend so much time sanitizing and doubting everything that there’s not much left. Reading modern scholarship of it you can just feel the contempt of the author, which is weird, why write a book like that. Thinking specifically of Johannes Fried and Peter Lewis. Though maybe one of the best modern accounts of charlemagne in English (idk about other languages), I don’t recommend it, you’ll be beating your head against a wall from any perspective apart from sneering scholar. The originals are so astoundingly biased it will leave you laughing the whole time at how absurd it is, and confirm your biases, which I find I always like, personally, even if it isnt good for me, and the stories of the celts and what they built are amazing.
You may also find the account of the last of the Beothuk interesting, and also General Custer’s book, “My life on the Plains” interesting. Contrary to what you might expect Custer was extremely down on what was being done (including what he was doing) and why. Imagine Smedley Butler but in like 1870. It makes for a very interesting read about the Indians on the plains whom he respected. It is probably the friendliest account I’ve heard from a soldier fighting natives but not on the side of one group of natives against another.
Another commenter commented about your post being drenched in marxist critical theory, or something to that effect, and yeah, it definitely is. You’ll get more traction, be happier, and learn a lot more if you learn about what the deal is with it and avoid getting your mind colonized by a Marxist/Gramcian mind virus. I dont think you like colonization or, in this case, what often originates out of london to divide people and make them easier to manipulate and rule. I dont think youre writing this way consciously because there is so much other good content in your writing. In the meantime even where youre right it will rub ppl the wrong way, particularly on this topic where the Irish werent colonized by another nominally Christian nation for another 700 years, and even then not really that much until more than a thousand years later. You can be mad about what happened but talking about colonizing is wrong. There were no colonies unlit the English and vikings rolled up.
Re: the residential schools in Canada (I dont know much about the ones in Ireland, but I spent a lot of time in the Yukon and I do know something about the issues there.) the govt would catch pedo teachers and let them choose residential schools or prison. I’m not aware of any going missing and being unaccounted for, and neither is anyone else. Is this a giant travesty? Yes, but it isnt the fault of st patrick or christianity, which typically proscribes death to pedophiles, at least until the last 75 years or whatever. Dont get taken for a ride on this, there’s plenty to be outraged about without repeating someone else’s willful lies.
Have you ever read about venice before the year 1200 or so? Or before 1000? It was really cool! I think you’ll like reading about it. Likewise with the chesapeake bay prior to about 1700.
I didnt know there weren’t sheep in Ireland at St Patrick’s arrival, I thought theyd found sheep remains going back to like 3700 BC? Would be curious to learn more about it.
There’s a really cool substack post about Tolkien and Doggerland that I think you’d like. Semi-unrelated to all of this, but in the wheelhouse of ancient brittanic stuff, and woowoo blood memory of neanderthals and ancient forests and stuff. I’ll find it right after this comment and either edit this or reply with a link in another comment. Edit: here it is: https://open.substack.com/pub/thesaxoncross/p/the-cauldron-of-reality
We can only work with what we have, as far as I can tell what the Christians did to Ireland, if you dont like it, pales in comparison to what secular zealots and economic hit men have been doing since the turn of the century. The playful Irish twinkly spirit, (idk what to call it, you can see it in people’s eyes), which persisted for nearly a millennia despite everything the English did, is being smothered and I dont know why the Irish put up with it, and it grieves me greatly. At least Cromwell you could try to stick a spear in him or something and it was an outside force to blame. This seems like it’s the Irish doing it to themselves and I dont understand why, and there is no occupying force to fight. The Irish must act ASAP to save their Irishness.
Please elaborate on what you describe as a "Marxist/Gramcian mind virus".
For the record, I am happy, I do not care if I get "more traction", and I learn plenty from seeing the forest as my teacher.
RE : General Custer.. "just following orders" was never a good excuse for mass murder.. not interested.
Your comments dismissing the atrocities of the residential schools shows you are either ignorant and unwilling to ask the hard questions, or have idolized and put corrupt institutions in the "above reproach" category in your head.
You seem to want to demonize the British but place Romanized Christianity on an untouchable pedestal and so you do mental gymnastics attempting to re-direct blame. That is understandable, but it does not take into account the facts.
I’m not sure if you are a Marxist, but you’re following the Marx’s dialectic approach to dividing history with all of a sudden, everybody is a white supremacist and an oppressor. I guess my neighbor from India who sells cars when I cut my lawn thinks I’m his oppressive?
It seems to be the latest fad going from Country to Country .
Just in recent years, the greatest literary writer of all time, Shakespeare is slowly being diminished, even taking over his village as he’s being labeled a white supremacist and an oppressor of language.
Instead of going on and giving dozens of examples of organic changes and western civilization based on a superior approach from Christians, .
one of the better examples is liberal comedian, commentator Maher which I’ll post to see the same thinking that is blossom around the world and it’s all just a bunch of gobbledygook trying to divide cultures following the Marxist thinking.
Late night host Bill Maher said “cool it with indigenous land acknowledgments
“Maher said in an X post linking to a clip of a more than six minute denunciation of native civilizations.
Maher’s monologue was sparked by a moment during the Oscars where actress Julianne Hough gave recognition to three Native American tribes in a 15-second segment during the ceremony.
“Either give the land back or shut the f—k up,” Maher snapped. “I understand the desire to right the wrongs of the past, especially when you get to take the moral high ground and then build an 8,000 square foot mansion on it.”
Maher was joined on set by “The View” co-host Alyssa Farah Griffin and former Montana Democratic Sen. Jon Tester — who both chuckled politely during the remarks.
Ancient people, Maher insisted were “just as full of s—t. In fact, more full of s—t than humans today,” before noting the well-documented history of pre-colonial natives warring amongst themselves and enslaving one another and cannibalism.
“Did you know that well before 1619, Indians practiced slavery here in America, and the Apache, Iroquois and Sioux all tried to wipe out their fellow tribes?” Maher said.
“I know it’s comforting to think that there was this ethereal time and place before white guys in suits, when everyone was a gentle, nature loving child, poet who split their time between riding deer and drinking dew, but it’s just not true.”
Greetings Frank, thanks for dropping by to share your thoughts.
Could you elaborate on what you mean when you said "a superior approach from Christians" ? Thanks.
No I did not imply that entire generations were unilaterally embracing white supremacist delusions and engaging in oppressive behavior. I am not familiar with "Marxist" ideology, so I cannot speak to your want to label me with the word.
What I did say is that the Catholic church weaponized an edict from the pope called The Doctrine Of Discovery to attempt indoctrinate multiple generations into white supremacist delusions, written into law, and used to justify the mass murder of indigenous people so that their land could be stolen.
That is a fact, and the way that the Doctrine was used to write human trafficking into law, and treat a subset of the population as less than human is well documented. In case you do not know about that aspect of history, here is some basic info: https://substack.com/@gavinmounsey/note/c-94196148
Also, I never said that human trafficking, nor mass murder or violent oppression was unique to the Roman Empire, their manipulated Catholic Church and the Statist regimes that sprung up based on their exploits.
I do not buy into woke propaganda that attempts to make people with lighter skin color feel guilty for their appearance and/or people with higher melanin content in their skin feel anger towards others in the opposite direction. That is a divide and conquer psyop that I have called out multiple times.
The Doctrine Of Discovery I mentioned above (pushed out from the Catholic Church and weaponized by human trafficking psychopaths) was obviously a tool for one group of people to disempower, disenfranchise and dispossess another group of people, and it still has ramifications today. However, just because we were born into nation states that were built on that weapon of imperialism and just because one has light skin, does not predispose one to embracing the racist delusions contained in that Doctrine.
There were many cultural practices that existed in what we now call “North America” (or Mshike Mnise which means “Turtle Island” in the Anishinaabemowin language) before the Europeans came to claim the land as their own and commit genocide (killing off up to 98% of the local population in some areas). Though there was a great diversity in their cultural practices and belief systems, they all shared several common themes.
Some of these cultures formed democracies (such as the Haudenosaunee Confederacy) others were matriarchal societies but the one through-line that can be observed in the majority of traditional views and spiritual teachings of all of the indigenous cultures of Turtle Island is that they recognized all of our fellow non-human beings on Earth as animate, imbued with a spirit and as persons deserving of our respect and reverence. Also, something that is of critical importance to realize about the difference between the religion and spiritual beliefs that used to guide the people that called this land home, compared to the imported European religion, is that all the various indigenous teachings viewed our non-human fellow beings on Earth as wise elders, from which we had much to learn.
With all that being said, I want to emphasize that I think that placing any culture, group of people or individual on some pedestal as pure is unhealthy (the Gael and Druids included) . I feel we should be vigilant to make sure we are not romanticizing their past nor romanticizing the potential of their worldviews to provide solutions to the present challenges we face.
I also acknowledge the fact that psychopathy, greed and other anti-social traits are not unique to modern western culture. Unpleasant, selfish (and even sometimes ecologically degenerative) characteristics can be observed (overtly) in the traditions of specific isolated indigenous peoples (some of them were slave trading warlords and others may have respected the forest but were somewhat materialistic coveting ornate possessions).
Other indigenous peoples refused to trade with people that enslaved others and wanted nothing to do with money (as was the case with some of the people that are described in the the essay linked above, who called the Eastern Woodlands, where I now live, home).
Thus, I feel that while no culture is perfect, and some may have lived in a way that expressed more compassion, ethical social structures and holistic thinking than others, one thing is certain, and that is that these starkly contrasted cultures offer us helpful sign posts as we attempt to navigate and forge a path towards a more honest, equitable, kind, abundant and regenerative future.
So, I acknowledge violent conflicts and slavery that existed in a small number of indigenous tribes of what is now called North America (and elsewhere). However, I would suggest that we should keep in mind that demonization and dehumanization of the perceived “enemy” or targeted “sub-human class” of an empire is a time tested psychological warfare technique that has been employed in both real time conflicts and retrospectively as “victors write the history books”.
The Doctrine Of Discovery has never been renounced. It remains the basis for Canadian law and as such continues to impact Indigenous Peoples (both here and abroad). It gave sovereignty or title of Indigenous traditional lands and territories to the Crown. It remains today “the legal justification for the colonial occupation of our lands and our nations. As long as Canada bases its existence on that Doctrine, it is hard to characterize it as anything other than an oppressive oligarch dominated state where one group of humans has been given the right to subjugate and confiscate the lands of another.”
It made possible the Indian Act and all of its genocidal laws and policies including the residential school system, removal of Indigenous Peoples from traditional lands to reserves, criminalization of languages and cultural ceremonies, and the creation, recognition and later denial of Treaty and Indigenous rights.
That edict from the Church later morphed into laws passed by the supreme court in the United States of America in the 1800-s which made it law that some were seen as real humans with rights, and others (that stood in the way of the established oligarchy and their minions) were seen as “savages”, property and primitives.
I know quite a few people that talk about how glorious, civilized, advanced and just “The Canadian Constitution” (aka Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms) or The United States Constitution is for protecting “freedoms such as the freedom of speech and religion” and protecting “personal wealth and property”.
My question to these people that put the edicts (and “constitutions” etc) of involuntary statist government regimes (such as Canada and the US) on a pedestal are as follows:
Were these wonderful distillations of civility called “constitutions” not in place when the Doctrine Of Discovery and Manifest Destiny was being used (in the supreme court) to “legally” dispossess and forcibly relocate indigenous people from their land in the 1800s?
And, why were those humans not included in these “protections” and “freedom from tyranny”?
Here in Canada we have a “bill of rights” and “human rights” etc , but if some indigenous people got in the way of industrial development those supposed rights got thrown right out the window.
It seems to me that many of these statist laws and “constitutions” have lofty aspirations, but where the rubber meets the road, the oligarchy, corporations and established hegemonic family lines get traction, throwing many others under the bus if they get in the way of “progress”.
There is nuance and the need for discernment. I would never universally declare that anyone and everyone indigenous to this continent (or anywhere else) all have “noble intentions” (simply because of their genetic heritage). That would be absurd.
Cultural influence is more important than genetic heritage, and many that have genetic heritage indigenous to this continent have not only had their lands colonized, but also their minds. This can result in the manifestation of Coal Mine owning, Uranium mine owning Fracking pipeline approving Native “American” Chiefs (that wave the American flag proudly) or Old Growth clearcut logging operation profiteering or Lithium mine approving First Nation Chiefs in the Boreal forest (as I highlighted in a comment on here).
The way one lives and defines their relationship to place (as either being a steward, protector and keystone species, or not) is what defines them as affirming their indigeneity, in the way in which I use the term, and not bloodlines. The ancient covenants that each and everyone of our indigenous ancestors had (whether here or in Europe prior to imperialistic empires dominating, or elsewhere) had with taking on the role of caretaker, giver, protector and tender of a particular land, is what defined them as indigenous to place.
You and Maher are right to point out how some people tend to romanticize Native American cultures, however, your awareness of the nuance in their diverse cultures is also very distorted and skewed from reality.
While the romanticizing is of indigenous culture is worth pointing out (because placing any culture, group of people or individual on some pedestal as pure is unhealthy).
"Westernized, civilized cultures sacrifice the unborn, the old, the young and everything in between every day and in droves.
Bloodshed and sacrifice. All day, every day, industrial scale."
Whether it is in the school “vaccination” clinics, the hospital or the elderly care facilities.. its human sacrifice, all day, everyday (for profit).
When I really think about it I would prefer a war club over the head and/or an arrow in the chest as opposed to the sickening, nefarious and pure evil process of being convinced you are safe and then drugged to death by a bunch of brainwashed cold hearted industrial medical staff.
I do not romanticize their past nor do I romanticize the potential of their worldviews to provide solutions to the present challenges we face. I am fully aware of the conflicts that existed between the various indigenous tribes of what is now called North America and while I cannot speak to the validity of your claim about human sacrifice I would suggest that we should keep in mind that demonization and dehumanization of the perceived “enemy” or targeted “sub-human class” of an empire is a time tested psychological warfare technique that has been employed in both real time conflicts and retrospectively as “victors write the history books”.
Therefore, I propose that people do far more irrational and fallacious romanticizing of Christian institutions, European imported statism and the myth of the “more civilized settler” than any one engages in with regards to Native American cultures.
There were many cultural practices that existed in what we now call “North America” (or Mshike Mnise which means “Turtle Island” in the Anishinaabemowin language) before the Europeans came to claim the land as their own and commit genocide (killing off up to 98% of the local population in some areas). Though there was a great diversity in their cultural practices and belief systems, they all shared several common themes.
Some of these cultures formed democracies (such as the Haudenosaunee Confederacy) others were matriarchal societies but the one through-line that can be observed in the traditional views and spiritual teachings of all of the indigenous cultures of Turtle Island is that they recognized all of our fellow non-human beings on Earth as animate, imbued with a spirit and as persons deserving of our respect and reverence. Also, something that is of critical importance to realize about the difference between the religion and spiritual beliefs that used to guide the people that called this land home, compared to the imported European religion, is that all the various indigenous teachings viewed our non-human fellow beings on Earth as wise elders, from which we had much to learn.
While I personally do not resonate with religious dogmatic belief systems, I respect that each individual must find their own path to remember who they are as a spiritual being, know the divine and engage with the Creator of all things, and perhaps, for some, religion is the path that works for them.
Well you did write a lot. Can't say I read more fiction in quite some time. I mean why didn't you just say the peace loving hippie Druids enslaved (oh wait that wasn't in there) mean Patrick who left to come back to terrorize them. Would have been an epic movie albeit fictional. I read this going 'surely he can't keep this rubbish going' yet you exceeded expectations on that. You found some book that you liked and went with it. Never read the Confessions of St. Patrick? I'm sure you would think he's biased but this other author isn't somehow. The anti catholic nonsense is quite clear in this 'write up'. I did giggle at you gospel of Thomas line too. Should have had a bingo card with the key words that would be predictable from this kind of mindset. It is almost like saying the Aztecs were wonderful people that ripped hearts out of their slaves and others for the sun god and those beautiful temples were really places where large gatherings had concerts instead of human sacrifice. Of course gnostics good, Catholics bad bc reasons.
Feel free to try again with truth this time instead of stuff not fitting for compost (I think I just insulted compost). I mean how bad of a historican can you be to mess up the Council of Nicea part. Constantine's Roman Church? Seriously that's the best you got? Not even a bright comment & you thought to type it for everyone? For those saying 'great write up!" did they not think? No due diligence in going 'is he right?" A+ for historical fictions though. The movie "Glory" or "Roots" is more accurate in their fiction
"peace loving hippie Druids" that is a good one! Thanks Steve. :)
I appreciate you having the courage to come out in the light of day to share and stand behind your opinions this time (rather than attempting to throwing stones from the shadows with your very poorly written trolling email that you had sent me).
Yes reading the "Confessions" (aka self-aggrandizing nonsensical propaganda) of St. Patrick (the Roman elitist and imperialist) was very telling indeed.
You mentioned "some book that you liked and went with it". Which one were you referring to? I shared excerpts from several books in the article above and referenced about 23 articles, so you`ll have to be more specific.
It is funny (and sad) how people like you and that Judson Carroll fellow (who is now known as "The Hernán Cortés of Herbalism” https://substack.com/@gavinmounsey/note/c-99712877 ) desperately seek to throw dehumanizing generalizations out there to label all indigenous people as "savages" in a weak red herring tactic attempt to deflect attention from all the atrocities of the Catholic Church (and its goons like Patrick).
I do not judge people who identify as followers of the Catholic belief system as having the same proclivities as the psychopaths that murdered Irish babies and children in the "Mother and Baby Homes" and indigenous children here in Canada in the residential schools. Each person is capable of using their God given conscience to choose what is ethical and what is not in their life (regardless of what type of brainwashing their parents and institutions have sought to indoctrinate into their minds).
In 2021, an investigation concluded that about 9,000 children died in Catholic church run Mother and Baby Homes in Ireland between 1922 and 1998.
Here on Turtle Island (and in Africa and South America), the Catholic church weaponized an edict from the pope called The Doctrine Of Discovery to attempt to indoctrinate multiple generations into white supremacist delusions, written into law, and used to justify the mass murder of indigenous people so that their land could be stolen.
This is the Doctrine Of Discovery in a nutshell:
“Invade, search out, capture, vanquish and subdue. All Saracens and pagans whatsoever, And other enemies of Christ wheresoever placed… And reduce their persons to perpetual slavery…”
That psychotic edict of the Catholic Church was used as a justification for human trafficking, torture of children, murder of millions all in the name of their Constantine manipulated version of Christianity.
I would never assume that you, or any other Catholic person supports or would be willing to engage in atrocities like that because of your religious beliefs or outward appearance. I would give you and any Catholic person the benefit of the doubt in assuming you are ignorant to the fact that the institution you hold on a pedestal is directly responsible for genocide and human trafficking, and that upon learning of those facts, you and any other sane and ethical person would recoil in disgust and renounce the actions of said institutions.
So, giving you the benefit of the doubt, I would like to hear your thoughts on what I described above, the Doctrine Of Discovery in particular. What do you think of it?
The Roman Emperor Constantine I (who was an unbaptized Roman guy that lived hundreds of years after Jesus’s murder) was an imperialist that wanted to be able to induct Christians into his army so he weaponized the Council of Nicaea to distort the bible in order to allow for it to be a tool to breed obedient soldiers. Prior to his manipulation (and censorship/redaction) of the teachings of Jesus and others most Christians were pacifists and boycotted war mongering regimes in the name of God. Emperor Constantine found a way to distort the bible so he could convince Christians to die in his wars for him and use Christians as cannon fodder. It worked.
I wonder if you will engage with me respectfully and stand behind your comment or just sling insults and then run away and block me like that Judson fellow did.
I appreciate you having the courage to come out in the light of day to share and stand behind your opinions this time (rather than attempting to throwing stones from the shadows with your very poorly written trolling email that you had sent me).
Me- (How is emailing you now trolling? At least you can focus on the 'poorly written' part and not your poor historical post. I guess its ok if you write fiction as long as it's well written? Well fiction is fine if you say it's fiction not this revisionist history you came up with bc you read 23 articles. Read 60 it doesn't make you right.)
Yes reading the "Confessions" (aka self-aggrandizing nonsensical propaganda) of St. Patrick (the Roman elitist and imperialist) was very telling indeed.
(How so? Can you explain? Self aggrandizing nonsensical propaganda? I guess all autobiographies are this? You do know he wasn't a Roman soldier right? Roman elitist and imperialist? Makeitupism is amazing.)
throw dehumanizing generalizations out there to label all indigenous people as "savages" in a weak red herring tactic attempt to deflect attention from all the atrocities of the Catholic Church (and its goons like Patrick).
Me- (You mean truth? Let's see you be honest about the Druids. Oh wait they were peace loving hippies that wrote poety I forgot. They didn't do anything wrong, like enslave people hahahahahahaahaha. You seriously cannot even bring up the historical fact that they enslaved people, like Patrick, yet Patrick is the evil one in your eyes, bc reasons. )
This is the Doctrine Of Discovery in a nutshell:
“Invade, search out, capture, vanquish and subdue. All Saracens and pagans whatsoever, And other enemies of Christ wheresoever placed… And reduce their persons to perpetual slavery…”
That psychotic edict of the Catholic Church was used as a justification for human trafficking, torture of children, murder of millions all in the name of their Constantine manipulated version of Christianity.
Me - (oh there we go. Bc someone wrote a post it must be true. I'm sure you never asked "did the popes approve slavery?" bc if you did any research there are at least 7 documents condemning slavery. Even Queen Isabella came out against that. But you hate us so much you can't do any actual research).
I would never assume that you, or any other Catholic person supports or would be willing to engage in atrocities like that because of your religious beliefs or outward appearance. I would give you and any Catholic person the benefit of the doubt in assuming you are ignorant to the fact that the institution you hold on a pedestal is directly responsible for genocide and human trafficking, and that upon learning of those facts, you and any other sane and ethical person would recoil in disgust and renounce the actions of said institutions.
Me- (well you know what they say about assuming. Maybe you don't. Well we have brought up atrocities when they actually occur. Can you have the humility to say you don't know it all or you might be wrong? Or are you infallible? Genocide & human trafficking? Show me now. Slander is gay. You have actual facts or just another blowhard with a bias? You claim I trolled. You are showing trolling. Indeed LEARN facts not fiction. Bring it. Wouldn't be the first time I corrected ignorance.)
The Roman Emperor Constantine I (who was an unbaptized Roman guy that lived hundreds of years after Jesus’s murder) was an imperialist that wanted to be able to induct Christians into his army so he weaponized the Council of Nicaea to distort the bible in order to allow for it to be a tool to breed obedient soldiers. Prior to his manipulation (and censorship/redaction) of the teachings of Jesus and others most Christians were pacifists and boycotted war mongering regimes in the name of God. Emperor Constantine found a way to distort the bible so he could convince Christians to die in his wars for him and use Christians as cannon fodder. It worked.
Me- (I never said Constantine was awesome. He really only legalized Christianity and ended persecution. His mother did more, Helena, hence in the west we hold her higher than her son and have the feast of the true cross thanks to her. The east proclaims him in high regard for some reason. I mean he was a arian for years and tried to 'beat the system' by holding off on baptism till his death bed. Let's say you are 100% right on the emperor weaponizing Nicaea, fake news, and distorting the bible, fake news, where was they the top dog in charge of the Church? Nowhere. Maybe those pretend truth blogs say that but that wasn't the case. I do love that you have zingcreed as a source hahhahahahah seriously just quote Beavis n Butthead next time, it would be better. that's your source?!?! hahahahahaha surely, you can't be serious. I am serious, and don't call me Shirley. Dude. That's beyond weak. I mean do you think his "jesus dark side' is accurate too?)
Gavin, I love to engage and have fun doing it and respectful as well and please know I don't have any ill will towards you and don't think of tone in this as attacking. I'm trying to correct you with some humor too. Judson is a good egg. He's a convert from anti catholic background here in N Carolina, and a master herbalist. You'd probably like his herbalist posts. But yeah I won't block you. I like the conversations. We are fides et ratio and not the turn off your mind (solid book too) that cults have where questioning anything is condemned.
You want to come after us? Fine. Be accurate with it. We can show our faults way better than the haters can. I mean ever heard of the cavider synod? Pornocracy of John xii? Trust me we can outdo whatever the haters bring up. Does every historican have a biased position? Yes, and if they say no they are lying. I have a biased, you have one, everyone has one. The key is to bring up facts and truth no matter what the outcome is. Or it's just nothing better than Daily Wire or Mark Levin etc. Plus, I love your gardening posts and have implemented many of them (got some of those apple seeds germinating as we speak that you brought up before) Bishop Sheen once wrote about those that hate us https://aleteia.org/2016/06/20/father-fulton-sheen-the-millions-who-hate-the-catholic-church & yes that Canadian murder thing has been proven 10 ways to Sunday that it was fake news.
Steve, when you say things like "Slander is gay." it shows that you are coming from a very adolescent mindstate in your writing.
I have no interest in "coming after" anyone. You and Judson subscribed to my newsletter and then emailed/commented to my page and account (not the other way around).
The information I have shared here is indeed accurate to the best of my knowledge.
I am glad you enjoy the gardening post content and wish you all the best with your apple trees.
You keep saying silly things about peace loving Druids, but I obviously never said that. People that are ecologically literate, horticulturally adept and poetically skilled can also be proficient warriors on the battlefield, and they may or may not also engage in other unethical behavior such as enslaving humans. Whether or not the Gael (or any other ecologically literate and horticulturally adept indigenous culture) engaged in various forms of violence or slavery does not change the fact that their form of farming and their relationship with the ecosystems that supported them was (and is) far more advanced and stable than the imperialistic exploitative and anthropocentric Romanized Christian forms of farming and interacting with nature.
I do not romanticize the Druid's nor other indigenous people`s past nor do I romanticize the potential of their worldviews to provide solutions to the present challenges we face. I would suggest that we should keep in mind that demonization and dehumanization of the perceived “enemy” or targeted “sub-human class” of an empire is a time tested psychological warfare technique that has been employed in both real time conflicts and retrospectively as “victors write the history books”.
Therefore, I propose that people do far more irrational and fallacious romanticizing of Christian institutions, European imported statism and the myth of the “more civilized settler” than any one engages in with regards to Gaelic or Native American cultures.
While you or Judson may allow hate into your heart, I do not. So the link about people that hate you is not relevant here.
Regardless of any superiority complex delusions people may internalize due to dogmatic institutional indoctrination, I see all people as equal and containing the same spark given to them from God that exists in all beings.
Yes, I emailed you because the newsletter was emailed to me and, logically it makes sense to read the email and respond to said email. No? I run a website and a huge youtube channel. People comment every minute. 100% of the time it's the reader/watcher that comments. I never care how or when or public or not. Actually I like the direct messages or emails as they are normally not heated as people usually like to try to 'score points' on comments.
Well your knowledge is quite lacking then. I guess I could eat rat poison and go "well to the best of my knowledge it sounded good". Same idea. Just bc a post says something you like doesn't make it true. I mean I sent that to quite a few historians today and let's just say your sources weren't very good.
Again, Nicea had zero to do with what you claim and I mean come on the gospel of Thomas? A proven forgery (sure it had some authentic sayings, bc most forgers use some truth to get ya) in it but was written 100-200 yrs after Thomas' death and with some insane and silly lines throughout it (e.g. 'make Mary leave us, for females don't deserve life.. I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven" (Thomas 114) I mean whackado stuff) yet people get caught up on the verse that Stigmata showed and the fiction idea (to make some conspiracy... even Roger Ebert laughed at that movie) that the Church banned it bc it said people don't have to go to church. I mean to use that as a source has to be biased bc anyone worth their salt in research would know that is a very weak and poor argument to claim 'truth'. Plus it was other councils that put the canon of the scriptures together, again not Nicea. Though nobody even brings up what session this attempt came from. I have multiple books on Nicea and Alphonsus goes line by line on it and I need lemon juice to find this. Oh I forgot, in the gospel of Thomas "jesus" kills a few kids when he's 5 so yeah that probably isn't the best to use.
I know you didn't say peace loving Druids. I'm being sarcastic bc the write up was this big look how great the Druids were before mean ol Patrick, who was enslaved by them, came back and converted their hearts threw some violent forced act that is completely made up. That's great their farming was cool. I don't see Patrick banning their farming ever. Seemed they situation got better yet your argument is it got worse? Gonna have to prove that one way better than just being mad at "romanized Christian forms of farming and interacting with nature". Where's that ad hominem that we stunk at it? Benedictine monks did a solid job at it, Carmelites even did enough for a water to be named after them. I mean you gonna blame the potato famine on them (instead of blight?)
oh 100% on the victors write the history books. I live in the south. The north makes us into walking demons who enslaved people and beat them on the hour ever hour and blah blah I'm sure you've heard that and yet Lincoln's empire was the bad guys and the south wasn't anything like the fake history folks brought up. Woe to the conquered is the line for us here. Talk about not popular to say 'the south was right". Also, the only approved group to trash is us catholics and it's cool to do so for many people. I get my 'irish up' when I see folks getting plastured on St P's day when that flies in the face of what he was and taught.
Thanks for letting me now how massive and popular your youtube channel is (again) very impressive.
"I sent that to quite a few historians" wow! You have a team of historians on speed dial that jump at your beck and call to verify ancient Irish historical figures? Man, you must be a very important and popular youtuber indeed.
You seem quite defensive of aspects of Southern US culture that perceived other human beings as live stock to be bought and sold, this explains a lot about your rabid St. Patrick/Catholic institution defensiveness.
I think that placing any culture, group of people or individual on some pedestal as pure is unhealthy (the Gael and Druids included) . I feel we should be vigilant to make sure we are not romanticizing their past nor romanticizing the potential of their worldviews to provide solutions to the present challenges we face.
I also acknowledge the fact that psychopathy, greed and other anti-social traits are not unique to modern western culture. Unpleasant, selfish characteristics can be observed (overtly) in the traditions of specific isolated indigenous peoples, isolated groups of Gaels included (some of them were slave trading warlords and others may have respected the forest but were somewhat materialistic coveting ornate possessions).
Other indigenous peoples refused to trade with people that enslaved others and wanted nothing to do with money (as was the case with some of the people that are described in the the essay linked here https://gavinmounsey.substack.com/p/why-involuntary-governance-structures , who called the Eastern Woodlands, where I now live, home).
Thus, I feel that while no culture is perfect, and some may have lived in a way that expressed more compassion, ethical social structures and holistic thinking than others, one thing is certain, and that is that these starkly contrasted cultures offer us helpful sign posts as we attempt to navigate and forge a path towards a more honest, equitable, kind, abundant and regenerative future.
While the romanticizing is of indigenous culture is worth pointing out (because placing any culture, group of people or individual on some pedestal as pure is unhealthy).
I do not romanticize the Druids past nor do I romanticize the potential of their worldviews to provide solutions to the present challenges we face.
"Westernized, civilized cultures sacrifice the unborn, the old, the young and everything in between every day and in droves.
Bloodshed and sacrifice. All day, every day, industrial scale."
Whether it is in the school mRNA “vaccination” clinics, the hospital or the elderly care facilities.. its human sacrifice, all day, everyday (for profit).
When I really think about it I would prefer a war club over the head and/or an arrow in the chest as opposed to the sickening, nefarious and pure evil process of being convinced you are safe and then drugged to death by a bunch of brainwashed cold hearted industrial medical staff.
Here is an example of the kind of fanaticism we are dealing with in the modern expression of Catholic human sacrifice. This is a clip of Catholic New York Governor Kathy Hochul bragging about her cult jewelry and calling on people to be her ‘vaccine apostles’ :
Therefore, I propose that people do far more irrational and fallacious romanticizing of Christian institutions, European imported statism and the myth of the “more civilized settler” than any one engages in with regards to Druids or Native American/Indigenous cultures.
It all boils down to this, the Constantine manipulated version of Christian institutions are anthropocentric, hubristic and promote violence.
The state of the landscapes here on Turtle Island, speak to that truth.
I study soil and trees and I can analyze pre-colonial ecosystems and compare them to post-colonial. The difference is obvious, one path leads to the collapse of civilization due to exploitation and hubris, the other leads to regeneration and abundance.
Thus, I choose to learn from animist cultures and belief systems that are aligned with Creation and work in service of life and I leave the anthropocentric exploitative worldviews behind.
Point is (since this is public) to show that you were complaining about me emailing you back & I just wanted to show you that others have way more people emailing or messaging then you do.
Yes, I actually have historians at my finger tips. Laugh all you want. Truth is truth.
You - You seem quite defensive of aspects of Southern US culture that perceived other human beings as live stock to be bought and sold, this explains a lot about your rabid St. Patrick/Catholic institution defensiveness.
Me- clearly you bought into the northern revisionist history on that (the north was the slave trade area and the people who pushed for the end of slavery was the south. Corwin amendment anyone? Of course you would say something ignorant to embrace the revisionist history of Patrick and other made up things you think us Catholics did. Do you actually want to learn truth or just like whatever you like without questioning everything? That's not very intellectual of you. To think southern culture was just about humans as live stock is very ignorant.
Never siad one group of people was pure and spotless
Well you sounded like you romanticized it I mean you trash Patrick (apparently that's ok) and never even mentioned the historical fact that Patrick was enslaved by the people you were ramanticizing. I mean kind of an important factoid you left out. But hey you clearly think us southerners were all about slavery but the point of your article never even mentioned how Patrick got to Ireland to begin with bc Ireland wasn't on the Roman Empire radar at all.
Yes, the human sacrifice that goes on today (abortion, euthanasia, harvesting organs, etc etc) is terrible. Not the point of the original post. I was in the medical device sales industry for years. I know all about the drug dealers in pharma. Again, not the point of the article.
So bc Kathy is catholic (in name only or when it's convenient) that makes us all that way? Talk about an intellectual fallacy. Seriously, try again. A corrupt politician that uses the faith for her insanity doesn't make us Catholics the same as her or makes her a representative of the Church. Good grief I can't believe I even have to explain that one. That seems common sense but anti catholic thought isn't rational.
Ok, you still can't drop the Constantine thing. Why? Did you read a blog and you think that's accurate? You are sincere in that thought but you are sincerely wrong. The Church was around long before Constantine and Constanstine didn't create anything after. So you are stuck on Constantine for some reason but if you try reading history for once you may figure out that you possibly could be wrong on that thought. Perish the thought I know. Or do you reject that you could be wrong? Plus, bad apples don't ruin the whole. Again, you bring up violence yet then try gymnastics to say the Druids weren't violent, or other peoples native to areas. For example, you hate us. I get it. Clearly you know nothing about us that is why you hate. You hate what you don't know. Ever heard of Fr. Piere de Smet? I'd bet the farm you have you don't. French priest who came to the states and converted many of the indians west of the Mississippi. They loved him. Peace pipes with him, hoisted him on their shoulders, etc etc. The natives only wanted to talk to 'black robes'. The protties were upset at this. It's said that people would stumble on the natives areas and go 'these are the so called savages?" What did US Grant do? Banned the priests from the land. De Smet and 9 other chieftains went to DC to try to stop Grant but Grant didn't care. They wrote the pope and the pope wrote back and they had a party for a week before they even opened the letter. Again, this is stuff you don't know about but hate us anyways for some sort of violence that you don't even know why this or that happened. Yet you assume. Just like you assume the south was what you think it was listening to the approved 3x5 card you are supposed to thing. Try reading the kennedy twins on that https://kennedytwins.com/ before you type that weak attempt again.
"I leave the anthropocentric exploitative worldviews behind" well you clearly didn't on this article. Good for you to study soil. Pretty sure nobody studied soil and went yeah Patrick bad till now.
Many interesting points here and I'm particularly glad to see you're familiar with Jimmy Ó Briain Billings' work! I suspect you will like this piece by Denise Conroy who is one of the people behind Airmid's Journal, which is also a publication I highly recommend if you want to follow current efforts on decolonialism in Ireland.
It's ST. PADDY's Day, LOL not St. Patties, like burgers! "Paddy" is the Irish way of having a nickname for "Patrick." While St. Patrick may have been Christian, it's been well-known for a long time that the "snakes" he ran out of Ireland were the Pagans. Because when you are trying to conquer a People, you take their religion and turn it into YOUR religion. Hence the corporatist takeover of Christianity and re-assignment of it into Consumerism, Santa and Rudolph, The Grinch, and Frosty the Fucking Snowman.
And if you REALLY want to deep dive, there's some evidence that Christianity was INVENTED by a couple of Roman guys, who wrote a PLAY and that was then taken as FACTUAL.
Read about the beginnings of Christianity on Frances Leader's page, an excellent narrative of that whole affair... "Uncensored." But... Point is... In a nutshell, "Christianity" is a misunderstanding of a play written by Roman guys, and never actually had anything to do with real life, or even a mythological but serious story. Woah, Nellie. Didn't see that one coming!! I didn't, either, but I'm not surprised... Seems like everything we ever learned is upside-down and/or backwards.
I received a very interesting email from a subscriber (that apparently did not want to throw around insults publicly, but was fine with doing it privately).
Some of the fun highlights include him describing Gaelic Irish people as “dinosaur people” who (he claims) the Roman Catholic church stopped from “tearing hearts out of people and eating them”.
And then he goes on to tell me how he has “a platform much bigger than yours on alt media” (I guess that is supposed to be impressive or scare me?) and describes my post as “garbage” and “compost”.
(without ever citing any sources)
His response highlights the truth in what I have quoted from my St. Patrick’s Day post below.
"Some people have chosen to throw the memory of their indigenous ancestors under the proverbial bus, internalizing the dehumanizing narratives inculcated into them through multi-generational propaganda systems imposed onto our modern day lives by statist regimes and remnants of Roman imperialist propaganda still rattling around in religious institutions."
Stockholm Syndrome comes in many forms, recently we saw it with face diaper wearing pfizer cheerleaders saying how much they love lockdowns, and it also exists on a multi-generational scale when people (like this Steve Cunningham that emailed me) are raised to put the institutions that oppressed and ethnically cleansed their indigenous ancestors (and continue to stifle their sovereignty today) on a pedestal.
This man is obviously a devout Catholic and criticism of his beliefs seems to be very painful for him. He needs to read a little more history and to also remember that not all Catholics have been good, God fearing followers of Jesus's path... he needs to take into account the damage done to so many people under the Spanish Inquisition. With that in mind it's not to difficult to envision some Romans in England wishing to dominate Eire by whatever means, and if religion could be used, 'well, why not?'...
Thanks for reading and for the thoughtful comment.
Well said regarding seeds sprouting, i`ll join you in holding that vision.
The part where you said "Indigenize or die." is fascinating. Would you care to elaborate on that at all?
On the one hand, it could be perceived as more of an omen, prophesy or educated guess regarding the inevitable destination if individuals and entire modern industrial statist cultures continue to have an exploitative, adversarial and anthropocentric relationship with the land that supports them.
On the other hand it might be seem as the sort of mirror reflection of the Doctrine Of Discovery if one looked at it like a threat.
I personally would not seek to impose my will or way upon others using violence, but I do acknowledge the suicidal trajectory of individuals, institutions and entire modern industrial cultural demographics that embrace the antithesis of indigeneity (colonial extractivism, exploitation and the cultural orphanhood/imperialistic indoctrination of statism).
Thank you for the Gaelic prayer brother.
I wish I was at the Reset this year. I lost my passport in the airport a few years back and now I am having trouble bringing myself to go pay some government office hundreds of dollars to give me this "glorified cattle tag" so that I can ask for permission to move freely on the planet Earth.
It is just one more way that these statist regimes impose their tyranny on this world. Demanding that we pay for documents so that we can move freely on the planet we were born on, how absurd!
from the article "Prior to 1914 one could travel the world freely, without being asked to furnish a passport or any other document.
With the advent of the First World War rigid controls on travel were introduced in Europe and elsewhere, purportedly in the interests of safeguarding national security.
In 1920, after the conclusion of hostilities, the League of Nations met in Paris to discuss a return to “pre-war conditions.”
Article 23 of the League of Nation’s Covenant upheld the principles of freedom of communication and transit, implying an end—or at least an extreme loosening—of the previously unthinkable international passport system that had taken root over the past six years.
The Paris Passport Conference decided a complete return to freedom of movement—considering a basic human right before the start of the War to End All Wars—was impossible, and instead recommended the creation of a standardized type of passport that would help simplify the new system.
Still, this “recommendation” was billed as a temporary measure. In a resolution passed on October 21, 1920, the conference expressed “hope” that the “total abolition of restrictions” would be possible “in the near future.”"
I appreciate you having the integrity to voice your opinion publicly and stand behind your views (as I have had a number of people email me privately that preferred to remain in the shadows).
Could you elaborate on any particular points in this post that are inaccurate in your opinion?
What our ancestors abandoned more than a thousand years ago deserves no loyalty. What they lived for, fought and died for since, does. For nearly 500 years the English have killed us, dispersed us and enslaved us for our adherence to Catholicism. The answer is not to turn our backs on the faith of our fathers for some mythical and vague remnant of paganism. It is to stand even more boldly defense of the truth, the one true religion revealed by God. If Christianity is true, then only Catholicism can be the true Church. If Christianity is false, then there is no true religion because the world is full of people of differing religious beliefs. If there is no true religion, there is no religion and thus, no truth that surpasses the mind of man. And if that be the case, our ancestors were all fools and there is nothing, true or good or worth honoring in the past or present of any culture on earth.
The way you keep saying "the one true religion" reminds me of the vibe of that wonderful edict called The Doctrine Of Discovery that came from the center of power of this institution you covet so much. Are you familiar with it?
Here is the message in a nut shell quoted from it:
“Invade, search out, capture, vanquish and subdue. All Saracens and pagans whatsoever, And other enemies of Christ wheresoever placed… And reduce their persons to perpetual slavery…”
I suppose you also see any surviving remnants of intact indigenous cultures on Turtle Island as "vague remnants of paganism" that should be replaced with "the one true religion" ?
Hey that is exactly the motto the residential schools were based on here in Canada (where thousands of indigenous children were tortured and murdered, because they refused to capitulate and assimilate to "the one true religion").
It is ironic that someone that values herbalism would champion an institution that so viciously sought to stamp out indigenous ethnobotanical knowledge globally (describing people practicing herbalism as "witches" and "pagans").
The truth is, if Jesus of Nazareth ever had the chance to come back and see the horrors and atrocities that institutions like the Roman (Constantine distorted) Catholic church and its minions have perpetrated in his name, he would shake his head in disgust and say something like "Forgive them God, for they know not what they do".
You might want to check the recent news. That story from Canada was a hoax. It was more anti-Catholic lies, and it caused attacks on Catholic Churches, priests and innocent people. By definition, there can only be one truth. You must figure out what that ruth is. I bet your grandparents or great grandparents would have been glad to tell you it is Catholicism.
Check the news he says, well, that explains a lot.
The mainstream news media says it was a "hoax", well, that is reassuring, I suppose all those survivors were paid actors and the mass graves were set up by anti-Catholic haters that buried bones for people to find?
Common man, even you do not believe that nonsense.
Look, I lived with a residential school survivor, I saw his scars and listened to his stories when his eyes filled up with tears talking about his friends that refused the orders given one too many times and were not as lucky as him to make it out alive.
It is actually a hoax and if you look into the supposedly scandalous charges against the Catholic Church, you will find mostly lies that are not just anti-Catholic but motivated by a hatred of the Irish and English supremacy. Meanwhile, has it occurred to you that pagan Ireland practiced slavery, human sacrifice, indescriminat slaughter of rivals, etc.... so did Native Americans, who were also cannibals..... But, you only fault your Catholic ancestors.
You lost me at St Patties day. As an Irish person I can tell you it’s a great faux pas to call it that. We hate it! Call it Patrick’s day or St Patrick’s day please. Paddy’s day if you must. But never ever Patties.
Nick names for the individual in question are not really relevant to me, so I would be happy to change any usage of "St Patties" in the article, but I would also value your opinion on the rest of the content provided given you live in Ireland.
As I explained in the article, to me, regardless of what you call the man, St. Patrick’s Day is as much about celebrating Celtic culture as Columbus Day is about celebrating Cherokee culture.
Do you feel that the life and mission of St. Patrick is worthy of celebrating yourself? If so, why?
This last is the real key, i think. For us to be slaves we must be made less than human. Everywhere you look, alliances between species, not a lot of slavery. This is not how the earth rolls. It is not really in us to be like that. Parents and chieftans, yes, not really slaves and masters. There is a site called the Brehon Academy, that gets into the details, about the original Irish slavery. It was more like a what we today call "getting a job". Or "repaying a debt" in some cases, the local chieftan was Obligated to see everyone was cared for, and he would take the unfortunate in, But they would have chores, like in any family. more indentured servitude. No one who could behave in a human way, went hungry or was unhoused. Not till, after christianity came. Then the clan system was wrecked. that was the real purpose of the christian church. destroy clam solidarity, clan cohesion, sow discordant among allies. In just the same way, Communism, seeks to destroy the family. All that is left of once powerful human form of solidarity culture and above all fierce independence. And St patrick was Welsh. so we are not even celebrating an irishman, of whom there are many noble lives to choose from. The church gave us our modern history tho, hence the twist. Deep in our hearts we know, we are a noble people. One who has been made by force, and starvation, to loose faith in itself.
Well said regarding the ubiquity of symbiotic and reciprocal relationships between non-human species on Earth.
I appreciate you offering your knowledge of the clan system as well.
I had read several conflicting accounts on the birth place of the man now referred to "Saint Patrick". Some claimed he was born on land in what is now called "England". Some claimed he was born on land in what is now called "Scotland" and yes others claim he was born on land in what is now called "Wales".
These sources I found are typically originating in communities and/or institutions that have a Catholic background, so they claim his birth place out of a sense of pride (which ironically) is sort of like spitting on the graves of their indigenous ancestors.
I imagine regardless of where he was born, he must have learned to speak some degree of Gaelic, but it seems pretty unilaterally agreed upon that Latin (well "Vulgar Latin" in particular) was his first language and that he was born to and raised by an elite Roman occupier family.
So, given those facets of his life, language, cultural upbringing, genetics and stated life mission (as an adult), it would seem to me that Saint Patrick was about as Welsh as Elon Musk is Zulu/African (given he was born there) or Huron-Wendat (he went to school in Kingston, Ontario, Canada and has citizenship here).
The Welsh people have a rich pre-colonial Gaelic culture with wonderful art and symbiotic horticultural practices that were (and are) the opposite of the Roman empire's approach of violence, domination and adversarial/exploitative relationships with nature. So, based on what I have learned about what Constantine's Romanized Christianity sought to do to indigenous animist cultures (such as the Welsh) I personally, as someone with a little Welsh blood, do not see Patrick as a respected ancestor nor an elder of the tribe (regardless of his birth place).
I very much agree with your sentiment, and i have only ready one source, and i stopped, after a story about 2 female druids that patrick and his men came upon as they bathed, as the story goes, patrick and his men talked to them to share the good news, and they saw the light “ became believers, and were taken into the sky, never to be seen again”. a shudder of horror went through me, and i would read no further.
I read a similar account of those two Druidesses. From what I read it sounded like weird euphemisms for this Patrick guy either killing two girls or convincing them to kill themselves? Super creepy.
Here is the version I came across:
"There is a story about Patrick and two Pagan Celtic Princesses – “He also caused two young princesses to die at the Ogulla Well, aka Cliabach Well. Here he baptised Eithne and Fidelma, daughters of King Laoghaire of Tara. They were attending the great Druid school of Cashel Manannáin at Rathcroghan. The two sisters were washing when St. Patrick came upon them. He told them that the only way to see God is after death. St. Patrick then baptized them after which they both died. Not a good plan – this seems to be a cover story for something else.” We are led to believe that Eithne and Fidelma died so they could enter heaven. A church in Tulsk nearby is named after them. Hang on a bit! Two young high-status female Druí Daltaí (student druids) suddenly died after a ‘blessing’ by a christian priest… only a few miles from their Druid school?
We are told – https://sites.google.com/site/catholictopics/s_patrick_and_ireland/eithne-and-fidelma “And so there, within sight of the palace of Cuachan, Patrick baptised them with the waters of the Well of Cliabach. Eithne and Fidelma remained for a while on their knees, deep in prayer. A rough stone altar was made ready and Patrick prepared to say Mass. Before the Mass began the two girls came forward again, saying, "We wish to consecrate ourselves as Spouses of Christ". Patrick received their vows and placed over them the Veil – the first consecrated virgins in Ireland. Then they wished to see the Face of Christ. But Patrick replied, “You cannot do that, until you have tasted the Sacrifice and passed through the Door of Death”. “We desire these things” they replied. Patrick offered the Sacrifice and gave them the Holy Eucharist. Then they closed their eyes, and then they died.”
Ah come on – why would two Pagan princesses - Eithne the Red and Fidelma the Fair, studying at a Druid school (under royal patronage) suddenly want to be spouses / wives of Christ? Why are we told that these two female Druids became Nuns who were automatically brides of Christ in a polygamous marriage that could never be consummated? Why were Virgins marrying a dead man? How come they died after eating Patrick’s sacrament?
Maybe the story needs an outside perspective – two young Princesses: Eithne and Fidelma who were being fostered (living with high status as guests) with Druids Mael and Coplait were attending the great Druid school of Cashel Manannáin at Rathcroghan attended by their armed guards were at the Cliabach Well washing themselves. They are claimed by the church as being among the first converts by Patrick to his tradition. The druid school they were attending is named after the Gaelic version of the sea god that is best known today as Neptune. The school is still visible as raised banks on the west side of Glenballythomas at Cruachan / Rath Croghan near Tulsk in Co Roscommon.
At that time of Eithne and Fidelma, daughters of King Laoghaire of Tara death by baptism the native laws aka Fenechus / Gael Law (aka Brehon law) would have demanded King Laoghaire of Tara seek recompense from who ever was responsible because under Celtic Laws 'whether by accident or by design' his two daughter were dead!"
truly, the Brehon laws were still in effect and would be for some time. He would have to lie and all his men tel the same lie to avoid paying compensation for his and likely their crimes to the clans of the people murdered... as well as leave no witnesses.
If you're interested in early Christianity, there's a really interesting book that's a sort of Feminist Bible, if you will... But also a history of pre-Patriarchy-- Matriarchy. Pretty detailed accounts of early days of Queendoms and lots of detail. The history is well-researched, and it's a scathing indictment of Patriarchy. It's also the plunge into Matriarchy, which seems to have existed much, much earlier on... And it talks about how Christianity was very much resisted in the British Isles and elsewhere, too, because people wouldn't give up the Goddess... Hence we get Mary, Jesus' mother... It seemed to be the only way to get people to take up Christianity. Lots of citation, sort of enthralling. Also very horrifying in parts. I forget the author's name... Elizabeth Gould Davis, l looked it up. 1973, I think.
An excellent post, Gavin. Thank you for this. Have you also written about the Irish words for animals and nature you've found? I've found a few examples of the familial names you describe. One being wolf, which is Mac Tíre, or son of the land. Another for yarrow, which is Athair Thalún, or Father Earth.
Thanks for reading Hamish. I have not but I would like to do more of that.
I appreciate the thoughtful comment.
Love this Gavin, and have been on a slow journey to decolonize the celebrations and rituals in my life.
Thanks Amanda, I really appreciate you taking the time to read it and comment.
Another example of the horrors which occur when we allow and encourage the marriage between church and state (as all modern statist regimes are subservient to edicts of and complicit in perpetuating the racketeering operations of Big Pharma).
In western Ireland, where a mass grave for almost 800 children was unearthed at a Catholic Church facility for unwed mothers and their children in 2014. Most of the bodies were dumped in a sewage tank.
Kids were secretly vaccinated against diphtheria in the 1930s in medical trials undertaken by international drugs giant Burroughs Wellcome, Irish media reveal. Among the testing sites was a discovered mass grave.
The medical records cited by the Irish Daily Mail show that some 2,051 children and babies across several Irish care homes may have been subjected to the practice.
Michael Dwyer, of Cork University’s School of History, found the data after foraging through tens of thousands of archive files and old medical journals. What he did not find is whether any consent was gained for these alleged illegal drug trials or any records of the effects on the infants involved.
Dwyer discovered that the tests were carried out shortly before the drugs were made readily available in the UK.
That was a common, but ill-documented practice at such Catholic-run facilities amid high child mortality rates in early 20th century Ireland.
https://nationalpost.com/news/world/sad-and-disturbing-experts-find-mass-grave-of-babies-and-toddlers-at-ex-catholic-orphanage-in-ireland
https://open.substack.com/pub/amidwesterndoctor/p/the-complete-history-of-depopulation?r=q2yay&selection=a4185ab2-3ab5-4c2d-ba8e-3c6b8e21629b&utm_campaign=post-share-selection&utm_medium=web
"In 2014, unmarked mass graves belonging to Irish orphans were discovered. Further research revealed these graves belonged to a group of 2,051 children on which an early and dangerous diphtheria vaccine was covertly tested on in the 1930s. This unethical human experimentation on Irish children (including infants and handicapped children) continued at least through the 1960s and 1970s at Irish care homes, where a separate investigation found early Tetanus, Diptheria and Pertussis vaccinations were covertly tested on these children."
This is a disappointing read from you Gavin. If you can get over your knee-jerk antiChristian stance, the following brief post might help you better think through a more complete picture of St. Patrick and the special blend of Catholicism and folk religion that makes Irish Christianity so beautiful.
https://open.substack.com/pub/paulkingsnorth/p/splendour-of-fire-speed-of-lightning
I continue to appreciate your insights into herbalism and permaculture. I will pray for you with earnest love in my heart.
Mounsey has an interesting take. Seems like every time someone dares to fall out of lock step with christ-insane dogma the pious knee- jerking nitpickers accuse him/her of being "anti-christian". Your monotheistic mind-virus has over a thousand sects but of course, yours is the real McCoy and the rest are false, riiiiight!
Here's something to help YOU think....... if that's possible:
Christianity's Criminal History by Deschner
The Darkening Age by Nixey
Most anything by Bart Ehrman
Read them if you dare and don't counter with some apologetics crap, which is just christian pilpulling.
>interesting take
>the church is… le bad???
The worst part of this article is that it’s not interesting.
Thanks for taking the time to comment.
I think you must have only read part of the post and/or misunderstood my views of Christianity and the teachings of wise and courageous people such as Jesus of Nazareth and others close to him. Perhaps this will provide some clarification:
https://substack.com/@gavinmounsey/note/c-103261599
I am not "anti-Christian", however, I am opposed to any system, institution or rhetoric that encourages imperialism, violence, superiority delusion complexes, oppression and anthropocentrism. I am opposed to those cowardly, hubristic and immoral actions and viewpoints whether they are promoted by someone describing themselves as an Atheist or a Christian or a Druid or a Muslim or an Indigenous person. Bullies and tyrants can wear all sorts of veils under which they attempt to obscure their malice and their cowardice, and religiosity is a favorite to wear as a camouflage.
Jesus was clearly a man that did not advocate nor condone violence, thus, anyone claiming to follow his teachings while also condoning/supporting institutions that are built upon and perpetuated by violence, imperialism, superiority delusion complexes, oppression and anthropocentrism, are hypocrites.
The merging of Church and State (via Constantine's carefully manipulated Council of Nicaea) is where the institutions describing themselves as Christian began to become corrupted.
Case in point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8TDi3v6uS8
You see the kinds of duplicity and nefarious propaganda that can be disseminated through institutions that are labelled as Christian when the state becomes mingled within ?
Statism (a system where organized criminals use violence and coercion to feed on a population like a parasite) is not compatible with the teachings of Jesus.
Nor is statism compatible with the Druidic teachings, for as I clearly described in my essay on Why Involuntary Governance Structures are Not Compatible with The Permaculture Ethical Compass, Statism is antithetical to ecological integrity, and maintaining ecological integrity was at the heart of the Druidic animist belief system.
Incase you missed it: https://gavinmounsey.substack.com/p/why-involuntary-governance-structures
What are your thoughts on the pre-Christian culture of Ireland? Do you feel that was a beautiful culture? If not, why not? If so, why?
Thank you for the loving prayers. You need not worry, I am in good relations with the Creator of all things as I surrender myself to be an instrument of his will through living in service of life.
Just as Jesus called out the corrupt scribes and pharisees, we too must strive to live by his example and call out the corruption in our midst. Even if this corruption exists within institutions we have been raised to trust and respect by the generation before us. It is sacred work, and I invite you to join me in this work.
Reply to Gavin Mounsey
You’re all over the place in this one, man. It’s just poorly written, poorly argued, poorly researched in a lot of places that I can see - you come out swinging, but not strong. Your arguments are incoherent: the thrust of this article seems to be that people (Irish natives? Irish diaspora? Non-Irish? Non-Catholic? Not clear) should not celebrate St. Patrick’s day because… the British empire oppressed the people of Ireland and despoiled the land, over a thousand years later? Because propaganda after Patrick’s death depicted him as more bloodthirsty and zealous than more contemporary accounts? Because he did not preserve the pre-Christian culture of Ireland in its entirety? Because he was not an Irish native (instead he was abducted into slavery on Ireland and came to love the land and its people despite that initial contact)?
You don’t have a strong thesis, and/or you don’t articulate it well. Your strongest point, which really only becomes clear at the very end of this piece, is that the culture and history of Ireland is more than just St. Patrick’s day. Maybe if you were more careful in your writing, that would have come through more effectively. Or maybe an argument that the current emphasis on St. Patrick’s day (which is already largely a celebration of secular capitalism, and hardly a mid-lenten feast of a Catholic saint) obscures the richness of Irish culture. But to glean that much from this piece is a real stretch and requires a lot of work on the part of your readers.
You spend a huge portion of this article attacking Nicene Christianity (which is the Christian Church, by the way - I grant that people outside the Church may not agree that it is the only way to be a follower of Christ, but through the last 2000 years the vast majority of people who considered themselves Christian were and are followers of Nicene Christianity). I hope you can understand how that makes you come across as anti-Christian.
If your opposition to Nicene Christianity is, as you argue, an opposition to involuntary governance structures, gnosticism was the wrong position to align yourself with. Gnosticism is a theurgical position predating Christianity that adopted certain Christian motifs and ideas as Christianity became more widespread in the Mediterranean (and later through Europe), like alchemy and magic (see the Greco-Egyptian magical papyri, the Emerald Tablet, the whole Hermetic corpus really). Like alchemy and magic, gnosticism is some of the most hardcore involuntary governance you could imagine; it’s the antecedent of secret societies like the Illuminati, Freemasonry, the WEF. Gnosticism holds that enlightenment (gnosis) - and, when it adopts aspects of Christianity, salvation - is only available to a select few elite through initiation into secret mysteries. Not the way forward for ecological integrity and certainly not compatible with the permaculture ethical compass, especially as you describe it in your referenced article. While I understand your mistrust of institutions including Christian institutions, Christianity was and is a radically democratic religion: the basis for modern human rights is the concept that all human beings are made in the image of God and deserve respect, with none being greater or lesser (Genesis 1:26-27 and 5:1-3, 1 Corinthians 11:7 and 15:47-49, 2 Corinthians 3:18. Maybe that’s still too anthropocentric for your tastes, but you haven’t made an effective case for an alternative model.
How do you square your assertion that Jesus did not advocate nor condone violence with his driving out the moneylenders from the Temple? This is an important instance, attested in the 4 canonical gospels (Matthew 21:12-17, Mark 11:15-19, Luke 19:45-48, John 2:13-16) of calling out corruption in his time, which is clearly an aspect of his teaching that you agree with. Jesus taught peace, but not passivity. I would say if you have respect for Jesus the man, and his teachings, that is something you should recognize.
The pre-Christian culture of Ireland is fascinating and in many ways beautiful. However, I can’t bring myself to be totally on board with ritual human sacrifice and slavery - two aspects of the culture which St. Patrick worked hard to end. I have no doubt that other aspects of the pre-Christian Irish culture were lost or altered in the conversion to Christianity, but there is a tremendous continuity. The lifting stones of the Druidic culture often became points at churches and central crossroads (see David Keohan’s chronicling of his rediscovery of these stones). During the British occupation of Ireland, the hedge schools which you admire - which preserved the Irish language, the knowledge of the Ogham script, the Brehon culture - were primarily taught by Catholic priests. (See e.g. PJ Dowling’s Hedge Schools Of Ireland, also the memoirs of Diana Beresford-Kroeger such as Our Green Heart)
There was a lot of nuance to be had here that you missed. In the alternative, I don’t think you argued coherently enough for a strong polemic. Not everyone is an orthodox Christian and that is okay (although some of my fellow Christians would disagree with that); in my view European Christianity is beautiful in part for the syncretic incorporation of pre-Christian tradition. But this essay didn’t just disagree with me theologically. It could have used much more work before you published it.
If you’re not familiar with Diana Beresford-Kroeger, she’s a biomedical scientist who has written extensively on trees. Also the last (known) student to receive a Druidic/Brehon education in Ireland. She’s based in South Ontario now too, that’s your area. I haven’t been following your book club posts so you may already be familiar with her work, but I think it would be worth your while to investigate her if not.
All in all this got me to think more about Druidic Ireland and Christian Ireland in the Middle Ages, so thanks for writing even though I didn’t like the article.
Thanks for taking the time to write the long comment.
I wonder why I did not receive this kind of feedback on my book (as it was written in the same style) ? ( here is some of the feedback I have received so far: https://gavinmounsey.substack.com/p/reviews-for-recipes-for-reciprocity )
Could it be that your criticism of my research and writing, is less about the content, and more about the fact that you have put institutions on a pedestal that have a long history of mass murder and abuse of children, and you are attempting to deflect and engage in scarecrow arguments because you are in denial about the church and desperate to avoid an honest assessment of the atrocities that institution has perpetrated on humanity?
You make a good point about Jesus calling out those money changing con artists (wannabe banksters) in the temple and flipping over some tables. It is a great example that shows how no human being is perfect (Jesus included). Despite the strong sense of morality and inward spiritual connection he chose to cultivate in his life, he had moments where he lost his temper. That said, flipping over some tables and yelling at people is not the same as killing another human, or inciting humans to kill millions of other humans (which is what Constantine and Augustine's "Just War" propaganda and the Doctrine Of Discovery did). In the article I was talking about the teachings of the man, and he taught tolerance, peaceful resistance in the face of tyranny and treating others as you want to be treated.
Pointing your finger accusingly and saying "human sacrifice" is such a played out, clearly desperate and weak tactic, as saoirse apty points out, the institutions you place on a pedestal actively sacrifice and mass murder humans.
The teachings of the wise human named Jesus are worth learning from, the fraudulent, imperialistic and nefarious institutions humans built up around his name are degenerative and systemically corrupt.
How pompous of you to tell Mounsey how to structure an article so as not to bore your pretentious self.
Also, you wrote: "However, I can’t bring myself to be totally on board with ritual human sacrifice and slavery". LOL, surely you jest! You're the follower (a.k a. sheep) of a religion based on human sacrifice and whose (un)holy book is rife with slaughter and slavery - which have been acted on thousands of times since it's inception. Get over yourself! Before you pilpul us again, read the books I mentioned above.
Blow it out your ass.
Gavin clearly tries to write at a high level of detail and an argumentative essay like this ought to be held to a high standard. His writing is unconvincing, I’m doing him a favor in explaining why.
Nixey is stuck on the myth of the “dark ages” and Ehrman flip flops and aggrandizes himself too much to be useful as anything other than a reference for translation studies.
Drescher is a lot more clear I grant you but you’re a massive hypocrite to be relying on a nazi/white nationalist for anti-statist/anti-involuntary governance arguments.
Stepford wife of christ; you have no favors to offer just more priggish self-aggrandizement and pooh poohing of authors you'll never read. Run along, your priest has another 'revelation' to give you as you bend over in supplication. Dope is apropos.
Your self-esteem depends on your having the last word so have at it.
You persist in writing without substance.
Christ is king.
I found this article really interesting. I don’t buy a lot of it, but I learned some more about druids and ancient peoples which is interesting. I also got many things to look into! I can’t square making St Patrick be a predecessor of Cromwell and the English, that seems “beyond the pale” or perhaps a better way to put it would be “within the pale”, since we are talking about Irish history.
I think you’d find what the germanic celts built quite interesting. There arent a lot of accounts of their great works after the roman empire except in accounts of Charlemagne. To get the best versions of the story you’ll want to read the original stories, the “modern scholars” spend so much time sanitizing and doubting everything that there’s not much left. Reading modern scholarship of it you can just feel the contempt of the author, which is weird, why write a book like that. Thinking specifically of Johannes Fried and Peter Lewis. Though maybe one of the best modern accounts of charlemagne in English (idk about other languages), I don’t recommend it, you’ll be beating your head against a wall from any perspective apart from sneering scholar. The originals are so astoundingly biased it will leave you laughing the whole time at how absurd it is, and confirm your biases, which I find I always like, personally, even if it isnt good for me, and the stories of the celts and what they built are amazing.
You may also find the account of the last of the Beothuk interesting, and also General Custer’s book, “My life on the Plains” interesting. Contrary to what you might expect Custer was extremely down on what was being done (including what he was doing) and why. Imagine Smedley Butler but in like 1870. It makes for a very interesting read about the Indians on the plains whom he respected. It is probably the friendliest account I’ve heard from a soldier fighting natives but not on the side of one group of natives against another.
Another commenter commented about your post being drenched in marxist critical theory, or something to that effect, and yeah, it definitely is. You’ll get more traction, be happier, and learn a lot more if you learn about what the deal is with it and avoid getting your mind colonized by a Marxist/Gramcian mind virus. I dont think you like colonization or, in this case, what often originates out of london to divide people and make them easier to manipulate and rule. I dont think youre writing this way consciously because there is so much other good content in your writing. In the meantime even where youre right it will rub ppl the wrong way, particularly on this topic where the Irish werent colonized by another nominally Christian nation for another 700 years, and even then not really that much until more than a thousand years later. You can be mad about what happened but talking about colonizing is wrong. There were no colonies unlit the English and vikings rolled up.
Re: the residential schools in Canada (I dont know much about the ones in Ireland, but I spent a lot of time in the Yukon and I do know something about the issues there.) the govt would catch pedo teachers and let them choose residential schools or prison. I’m not aware of any going missing and being unaccounted for, and neither is anyone else. Is this a giant travesty? Yes, but it isnt the fault of st patrick or christianity, which typically proscribes death to pedophiles, at least until the last 75 years or whatever. Dont get taken for a ride on this, there’s plenty to be outraged about without repeating someone else’s willful lies.
Have you ever read about venice before the year 1200 or so? Or before 1000? It was really cool! I think you’ll like reading about it. Likewise with the chesapeake bay prior to about 1700.
I didnt know there weren’t sheep in Ireland at St Patrick’s arrival, I thought theyd found sheep remains going back to like 3700 BC? Would be curious to learn more about it.
There’s a really cool substack post about Tolkien and Doggerland that I think you’d like. Semi-unrelated to all of this, but in the wheelhouse of ancient brittanic stuff, and woowoo blood memory of neanderthals and ancient forests and stuff. I’ll find it right after this comment and either edit this or reply with a link in another comment. Edit: here it is: https://open.substack.com/pub/thesaxoncross/p/the-cauldron-of-reality
We can only work with what we have, as far as I can tell what the Christians did to Ireland, if you dont like it, pales in comparison to what secular zealots and economic hit men have been doing since the turn of the century. The playful Irish twinkly spirit, (idk what to call it, you can see it in people’s eyes), which persisted for nearly a millennia despite everything the English did, is being smothered and I dont know why the Irish put up with it, and it grieves me greatly. At least Cromwell you could try to stick a spear in him or something and it was an outside force to blame. This seems like it’s the Irish doing it to themselves and I dont understand why, and there is no occupying force to fight. The Irish must act ASAP to save their Irishness.
Thanks for the detailed comment.
Please elaborate on what you describe as a "Marxist/Gramcian mind virus".
For the record, I am happy, I do not care if I get "more traction", and I learn plenty from seeing the forest as my teacher.
RE : General Custer.. "just following orders" was never a good excuse for mass murder.. not interested.
Your comments dismissing the atrocities of the residential schools shows you are either ignorant and unwilling to ask the hard questions, or have idolized and put corrupt institutions in the "above reproach" category in your head.
Do your homework:
"Where are the Children Buried?"
https://ehprnh2mwo3.exactdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/AAAA-Hamilton-Report-Illustrations-final.pdf
The (Residential School) Survivors Speak (PDF)
https://ehprnh2mwo3.exactdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Survivors_Speak_English_Web.pdf
You seem to want to demonize the British but place Romanized Christianity on an untouchable pedestal and so you do mental gymnastics attempting to re-direct blame. That is understandable, but it does not take into account the facts.
Thanks again for the comment.
I’m not sure if you are a Marxist, but you’re following the Marx’s dialectic approach to dividing history with all of a sudden, everybody is a white supremacist and an oppressor. I guess my neighbor from India who sells cars when I cut my lawn thinks I’m his oppressive?
It seems to be the latest fad going from Country to Country .
Just in recent years, the greatest literary writer of all time, Shakespeare is slowly being diminished, even taking over his village as he’s being labeled a white supremacist and an oppressor of language.
Instead of going on and giving dozens of examples of organic changes and western civilization based on a superior approach from Christians, .
one of the better examples is liberal comedian, commentator Maher which I’ll post to see the same thinking that is blossom around the world and it’s all just a bunch of gobbledygook trying to divide cultures following the Marxist thinking.
Late night host Bill Maher said “cool it with indigenous land acknowledgments
“Maher said in an X post linking to a clip of a more than six minute denunciation of native civilizations.
Maher’s monologue was sparked by a moment during the Oscars where actress Julianne Hough gave recognition to three Native American tribes in a 15-second segment during the ceremony.
“Either give the land back or shut the f—k up,” Maher snapped. “I understand the desire to right the wrongs of the past, especially when you get to take the moral high ground and then build an 8,000 square foot mansion on it.”
Maher was joined on set by “The View” co-host Alyssa Farah Griffin and former Montana Democratic Sen. Jon Tester — who both chuckled politely during the remarks.
Ancient people, Maher insisted were “just as full of s—t. In fact, more full of s—t than humans today,” before noting the well-documented history of pre-colonial natives warring amongst themselves and enslaving one another and cannibalism.
“Did you know that well before 1619, Indians practiced slavery here in America, and the Apache, Iroquois and Sioux all tried to wipe out their fellow tribes?” Maher said.
“I know it’s comforting to think that there was this ethereal time and place before white guys in suits, when everyone was a gentle, nature loving child, poet who split their time between riding deer and drinking dew, but it’s just not true.”
Greetings Frank, thanks for dropping by to share your thoughts.
Could you elaborate on what you mean when you said "a superior approach from Christians" ? Thanks.
No I did not imply that entire generations were unilaterally embracing white supremacist delusions and engaging in oppressive behavior. I am not familiar with "Marxist" ideology, so I cannot speak to your want to label me with the word.
What I did say is that the Catholic church weaponized an edict from the pope called The Doctrine Of Discovery to attempt indoctrinate multiple generations into white supremacist delusions, written into law, and used to justify the mass murder of indigenous people so that their land could be stolen.
That is a fact, and the way that the Doctrine was used to write human trafficking into law, and treat a subset of the population as less than human is well documented. In case you do not know about that aspect of history, here is some basic info: https://substack.com/@gavinmounsey/note/c-94196148
Also, I never said that human trafficking, nor mass murder or violent oppression was unique to the Roman Empire, their manipulated Catholic Church and the Statist regimes that sprung up based on their exploits.
I do not buy into woke propaganda that attempts to make people with lighter skin color feel guilty for their appearance and/or people with higher melanin content in their skin feel anger towards others in the opposite direction. That is a divide and conquer psyop that I have called out multiple times.
Here is one example: https://archive.org/details/CanadaTruthandReconciliationday
The Doctrine Of Discovery I mentioned above (pushed out from the Catholic Church and weaponized by human trafficking psychopaths) was obviously a tool for one group of people to disempower, disenfranchise and dispossess another group of people, and it still has ramifications today. However, just because we were born into nation states that were built on that weapon of imperialism and just because one has light skin, does not predispose one to embracing the racist delusions contained in that Doctrine.
As I said in this essay ( https://gavinmounsey.substack.com/p/the-rise-of-anthropocentrism-bright )
There were many cultural practices that existed in what we now call “North America” (or Mshike Mnise which means “Turtle Island” in the Anishinaabemowin language) before the Europeans came to claim the land as their own and commit genocide (killing off up to 98% of the local population in some areas). Though there was a great diversity in their cultural practices and belief systems, they all shared several common themes.
Some of these cultures formed democracies (such as the Haudenosaunee Confederacy) others were matriarchal societies but the one through-line that can be observed in the majority of traditional views and spiritual teachings of all of the indigenous cultures of Turtle Island is that they recognized all of our fellow non-human beings on Earth as animate, imbued with a spirit and as persons deserving of our respect and reverence. Also, something that is of critical importance to realize about the difference between the religion and spiritual beliefs that used to guide the people that called this land home, compared to the imported European religion, is that all the various indigenous teachings viewed our non-human fellow beings on Earth as wise elders, from which we had much to learn.
With all that being said, I want to emphasize that I think that placing any culture, group of people or individual on some pedestal as pure is unhealthy (the Gael and Druids included) . I feel we should be vigilant to make sure we are not romanticizing their past nor romanticizing the potential of their worldviews to provide solutions to the present challenges we face.
I also acknowledge the fact that psychopathy, greed and other anti-social traits are not unique to modern western culture. Unpleasant, selfish (and even sometimes ecologically degenerative) characteristics can be observed (overtly) in the traditions of specific isolated indigenous peoples (some of them were slave trading warlords and others may have respected the forest but were somewhat materialistic coveting ornate possessions).
Other indigenous peoples refused to trade with people that enslaved others and wanted nothing to do with money (as was the case with some of the people that are described in the the essay linked above, who called the Eastern Woodlands, where I now live, home).
Thus, I feel that while no culture is perfect, and some may have lived in a way that expressed more compassion, ethical social structures and holistic thinking than others, one thing is certain, and that is that these starkly contrasted cultures offer us helpful sign posts as we attempt to navigate and forge a path towards a more honest, equitable, kind, abundant and regenerative future.
So, I acknowledge violent conflicts and slavery that existed in a small number of indigenous tribes of what is now called North America (and elsewhere). However, I would suggest that we should keep in mind that demonization and dehumanization of the perceived “enemy” or targeted “sub-human class” of an empire is a time tested psychological warfare technique that has been employed in both real time conflicts and retrospectively as “victors write the history books”.
(continued in another comment below)..
(continued from comment above, in response to "Frank bruno")
Getting back to the above mentioned Doctrine Of Discovery:
For mor info: https://archive.org/details/doctrineofdiscovery
The Doctrine Of Discovery has never been renounced. It remains the basis for Canadian law and as such continues to impact Indigenous Peoples (both here and abroad). It gave sovereignty or title of Indigenous traditional lands and territories to the Crown. It remains today “the legal justification for the colonial occupation of our lands and our nations. As long as Canada bases its existence on that Doctrine, it is hard to characterize it as anything other than an oppressive oligarch dominated state where one group of humans has been given the right to subjugate and confiscate the lands of another.”
It made possible the Indian Act and all of its genocidal laws and policies including the residential school system, removal of Indigenous Peoples from traditional lands to reserves, criminalization of languages and cultural ceremonies, and the creation, recognition and later denial of Treaty and Indigenous rights.
That edict from the Church later morphed into laws passed by the supreme court in the United States of America in the 1800-s which made it law that some were seen as real humans with rights, and others (that stood in the way of the established oligarchy and their minions) were seen as “savages”, property and primitives.
I know quite a few people that talk about how glorious, civilized, advanced and just “The Canadian Constitution” (aka Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms) or The United States Constitution is for protecting “freedoms such as the freedom of speech and religion” and protecting “personal wealth and property”.
My question to these people that put the edicts (and “constitutions” etc) of involuntary statist government regimes (such as Canada and the US) on a pedestal are as follows:
Were these wonderful distillations of civility called “constitutions” not in place when the Doctrine Of Discovery and Manifest Destiny was being used (in the supreme court) to “legally” dispossess and forcibly relocate indigenous people from their land in the 1800s?
And, why were those humans not included in these “protections” and “freedom from tyranny”?
Here in Canada we have a “bill of rights” and “human rights” etc , but if some indigenous people got in the way of industrial development those supposed rights got thrown right out the window.
It seems to me that many of these statist laws and “constitutions” have lofty aspirations, but where the rubber meets the road, the oligarchy, corporations and established hegemonic family lines get traction, throwing many others under the bus if they get in the way of “progress”.
There is nuance and the need for discernment. I would never universally declare that anyone and everyone indigenous to this continent (or anywhere else) all have “noble intentions” (simply because of their genetic heritage). That would be absurd.
Cultural influence is more important than genetic heritage, and many that have genetic heritage indigenous to this continent have not only had their lands colonized, but also their minds. This can result in the manifestation of Coal Mine owning, Uranium mine owning Fracking pipeline approving Native “American” Chiefs (that wave the American flag proudly) or Old Growth clearcut logging operation profiteering or Lithium mine approving First Nation Chiefs in the Boreal forest (as I highlighted in a comment on here).
The way one lives and defines their relationship to place (as either being a steward, protector and keystone species, or not) is what defines them as affirming their indigeneity, in the way in which I use the term, and not bloodlines. The ancient covenants that each and everyone of our indigenous ancestors had (whether here or in Europe prior to imperialistic empires dominating, or elsewhere) had with taking on the role of caretaker, giver, protector and tender of a particular land, is what defined them as indigenous to place.
You and Maher are right to point out how some people tend to romanticize Native American cultures, however, your awareness of the nuance in their diverse cultures is also very distorted and skewed from reality.
While the romanticizing is of indigenous culture is worth pointing out (because placing any culture, group of people or individual on some pedestal as pure is unhealthy).
We need to apply that awareness both ways. As Corbett Report member "mkey" shared in a comment ( https://corbettreport.com/dissent-into-madness-the-weaponization-of-psychology/#comment-148057 )
"Westernized, civilized cultures sacrifice the unborn, the old, the young and everything in between every day and in droves.
Bloodshed and sacrifice. All day, every day, industrial scale."
Whether it is in the school “vaccination” clinics, the hospital or the elderly care facilities.. its human sacrifice, all day, everyday (for profit).
When I really think about it I would prefer a war club over the head and/or an arrow in the chest as opposed to the sickening, nefarious and pure evil process of being convinced you are safe and then drugged to death by a bunch of brainwashed cold hearted industrial medical staff.
I do not romanticize their past nor do I romanticize the potential of their worldviews to provide solutions to the present challenges we face. I am fully aware of the conflicts that existed between the various indigenous tribes of what is now called North America and while I cannot speak to the validity of your claim about human sacrifice I would suggest that we should keep in mind that demonization and dehumanization of the perceived “enemy” or targeted “sub-human class” of an empire is a time tested psychological warfare technique that has been employed in both real time conflicts and retrospectively as “victors write the history books”.
Therefore, I propose that people do far more irrational and fallacious romanticizing of Christian institutions, European imported statism and the myth of the “more civilized settler” than any one engages in with regards to Native American cultures.
There were many cultural practices that existed in what we now call “North America” (or Mshike Mnise which means “Turtle Island” in the Anishinaabemowin language) before the Europeans came to claim the land as their own and commit genocide (killing off up to 98% of the local population in some areas). Though there was a great diversity in their cultural practices and belief systems, they all shared several common themes.
Some of these cultures formed democracies (such as the Haudenosaunee Confederacy) others were matriarchal societies but the one through-line that can be observed in the traditional views and spiritual teachings of all of the indigenous cultures of Turtle Island is that they recognized all of our fellow non-human beings on Earth as animate, imbued with a spirit and as persons deserving of our respect and reverence. Also, something that is of critical importance to realize about the difference between the religion and spiritual beliefs that used to guide the people that called this land home, compared to the imported European religion, is that all the various indigenous teachings viewed our non-human fellow beings on Earth as wise elders, from which we had much to learn.
While I personally do not resonate with religious dogmatic belief systems, I respect that each individual must find their own path to remember who they are as a spiritual being, know the divine and engage with the Creator of all things, and perhaps, for some, religion is the path that works for them.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Well you did write a lot. Can't say I read more fiction in quite some time. I mean why didn't you just say the peace loving hippie Druids enslaved (oh wait that wasn't in there) mean Patrick who left to come back to terrorize them. Would have been an epic movie albeit fictional. I read this going 'surely he can't keep this rubbish going' yet you exceeded expectations on that. You found some book that you liked and went with it. Never read the Confessions of St. Patrick? I'm sure you would think he's biased but this other author isn't somehow. The anti catholic nonsense is quite clear in this 'write up'. I did giggle at you gospel of Thomas line too. Should have had a bingo card with the key words that would be predictable from this kind of mindset. It is almost like saying the Aztecs were wonderful people that ripped hearts out of their slaves and others for the sun god and those beautiful temples were really places where large gatherings had concerts instead of human sacrifice. Of course gnostics good, Catholics bad bc reasons.
Feel free to try again with truth this time instead of stuff not fitting for compost (I think I just insulted compost). I mean how bad of a historican can you be to mess up the Council of Nicea part. Constantine's Roman Church? Seriously that's the best you got? Not even a bright comment & you thought to type it for everyone? For those saying 'great write up!" did they not think? No due diligence in going 'is he right?" A+ for historical fictions though. The movie "Glory" or "Roots" is more accurate in their fiction
"peace loving hippie Druids" that is a good one! Thanks Steve. :)
I appreciate you having the courage to come out in the light of day to share and stand behind your opinions this time (rather than attempting to throwing stones from the shadows with your very poorly written trolling email that you had sent me).
Yes reading the "Confessions" (aka self-aggrandizing nonsensical propaganda) of St. Patrick (the Roman elitist and imperialist) was very telling indeed.
You mentioned "some book that you liked and went with it". Which one were you referring to? I shared excerpts from several books in the article above and referenced about 23 articles, so you`ll have to be more specific.
It is funny (and sad) how people like you and that Judson Carroll fellow (who is now known as "The Hernán Cortés of Herbalism” https://substack.com/@gavinmounsey/note/c-99712877 ) desperately seek to throw dehumanizing generalizations out there to label all indigenous people as "savages" in a weak red herring tactic attempt to deflect attention from all the atrocities of the Catholic Church (and its goons like Patrick).
I do not judge people who identify as followers of the Catholic belief system as having the same proclivities as the psychopaths that murdered Irish babies and children in the "Mother and Baby Homes" and indigenous children here in Canada in the residential schools. Each person is capable of using their God given conscience to choose what is ethical and what is not in their life (regardless of what type of brainwashing their parents and institutions have sought to indoctrinate into their minds).
In 2021, an investigation concluded that about 9,000 children died in Catholic church run Mother and Baby Homes in Ireland between 1922 and 1998.
https://web.archive.org/web/20220816032725/https://nbmediacoop.org/2021/07/01/after-unearthing-mass-graves-irish-settlers-must-support-decolonization/
Here on Turtle Island (and in Africa and South America), the Catholic church weaponized an edict from the pope called The Doctrine Of Discovery to attempt to indoctrinate multiple generations into white supremacist delusions, written into law, and used to justify the mass murder of indigenous people so that their land could be stolen.
This is the Doctrine Of Discovery in a nutshell:
“Invade, search out, capture, vanquish and subdue. All Saracens and pagans whatsoever, And other enemies of Christ wheresoever placed… And reduce their persons to perpetual slavery…”
That psychotic edict of the Catholic Church was used as a justification for human trafficking, torture of children, murder of millions all in the name of their Constantine manipulated version of Christianity.
https://zingcreed.wordpress.com/2013/06/07/how-emperor-constantine-corrupted-christianity/
I would never assume that you, or any other Catholic person supports or would be willing to engage in atrocities like that because of your religious beliefs or outward appearance. I would give you and any Catholic person the benefit of the doubt in assuming you are ignorant to the fact that the institution you hold on a pedestal is directly responsible for genocide and human trafficking, and that upon learning of those facts, you and any other sane and ethical person would recoil in disgust and renounce the actions of said institutions.
So, giving you the benefit of the doubt, I would like to hear your thoughts on what I described above, the Doctrine Of Discovery in particular. What do you think of it?
For more info: https://substack.com/@gavinmounsey/note/c-94196148
The Roman Emperor Constantine I (who was an unbaptized Roman guy that lived hundreds of years after Jesus’s murder) was an imperialist that wanted to be able to induct Christians into his army so he weaponized the Council of Nicaea to distort the bible in order to allow for it to be a tool to breed obedient soldiers. Prior to his manipulation (and censorship/redaction) of the teachings of Jesus and others most Christians were pacifists and boycotted war mongering regimes in the name of God. Emperor Constantine found a way to distort the bible so he could convince Christians to die in his wars for him and use Christians as cannon fodder. It worked.
For more information:
- https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/religious-violence-in-the-ancient-world/violent-legacy-of-constantines-militant-piety/22B5F442455335FFC04C365537082510
- https://zingcreed.wordpress.com/2013/06/07/how-emperor-constantine-corrupted-christianity/
- https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/themelios/article/nonviolence-in-the-ancient-church-and-christian-obedience/
I wonder if you will engage with me respectfully and stand behind your comment or just sling insults and then run away and block me like that Judson fellow did.
I appreciate you having the courage to come out in the light of day to share and stand behind your opinions this time (rather than attempting to throwing stones from the shadows with your very poorly written trolling email that you had sent me).
Me- (How is emailing you now trolling? At least you can focus on the 'poorly written' part and not your poor historical post. I guess its ok if you write fiction as long as it's well written? Well fiction is fine if you say it's fiction not this revisionist history you came up with bc you read 23 articles. Read 60 it doesn't make you right.)
Yes reading the "Confessions" (aka self-aggrandizing nonsensical propaganda) of St. Patrick (the Roman elitist and imperialist) was very telling indeed.
(How so? Can you explain? Self aggrandizing nonsensical propaganda? I guess all autobiographies are this? You do know he wasn't a Roman soldier right? Roman elitist and imperialist? Makeitupism is amazing.)
throw dehumanizing generalizations out there to label all indigenous people as "savages" in a weak red herring tactic attempt to deflect attention from all the atrocities of the Catholic Church (and its goons like Patrick).
Me- (You mean truth? Let's see you be honest about the Druids. Oh wait they were peace loving hippies that wrote poety I forgot. They didn't do anything wrong, like enslave people hahahahahahaahaha. You seriously cannot even bring up the historical fact that they enslaved people, like Patrick, yet Patrick is the evil one in your eyes, bc reasons. )
This is the Doctrine Of Discovery in a nutshell:
“Invade, search out, capture, vanquish and subdue. All Saracens and pagans whatsoever, And other enemies of Christ wheresoever placed… And reduce their persons to perpetual slavery…”
That psychotic edict of the Catholic Church was used as a justification for human trafficking, torture of children, murder of millions all in the name of their Constantine manipulated version of Christianity.
https://zingcreed.wordpress.com/2013/06/07/how-emperor-constantine-corrupted-christianity/
Me - (oh there we go. Bc someone wrote a post it must be true. I'm sure you never asked "did the popes approve slavery?" bc if you did any research there are at least 7 documents condemning slavery. Even Queen Isabella came out against that. But you hate us so much you can't do any actual research).
I would never assume that you, or any other Catholic person supports or would be willing to engage in atrocities like that because of your religious beliefs or outward appearance. I would give you and any Catholic person the benefit of the doubt in assuming you are ignorant to the fact that the institution you hold on a pedestal is directly responsible for genocide and human trafficking, and that upon learning of those facts, you and any other sane and ethical person would recoil in disgust and renounce the actions of said institutions.
Me- (well you know what they say about assuming. Maybe you don't. Well we have brought up atrocities when they actually occur. Can you have the humility to say you don't know it all or you might be wrong? Or are you infallible? Genocide & human trafficking? Show me now. Slander is gay. You have actual facts or just another blowhard with a bias? You claim I trolled. You are showing trolling. Indeed LEARN facts not fiction. Bring it. Wouldn't be the first time I corrected ignorance.)
The Roman Emperor Constantine I (who was an unbaptized Roman guy that lived hundreds of years after Jesus’s murder) was an imperialist that wanted to be able to induct Christians into his army so he weaponized the Council of Nicaea to distort the bible in order to allow for it to be a tool to breed obedient soldiers. Prior to his manipulation (and censorship/redaction) of the teachings of Jesus and others most Christians were pacifists and boycotted war mongering regimes in the name of God. Emperor Constantine found a way to distort the bible so he could convince Christians to die in his wars for him and use Christians as cannon fodder. It worked.
Me- (I never said Constantine was awesome. He really only legalized Christianity and ended persecution. His mother did more, Helena, hence in the west we hold her higher than her son and have the feast of the true cross thanks to her. The east proclaims him in high regard for some reason. I mean he was a arian for years and tried to 'beat the system' by holding off on baptism till his death bed. Let's say you are 100% right on the emperor weaponizing Nicaea, fake news, and distorting the bible, fake news, where was they the top dog in charge of the Church? Nowhere. Maybe those pretend truth blogs say that but that wasn't the case. I do love that you have zingcreed as a source hahhahahahah seriously just quote Beavis n Butthead next time, it would be better. that's your source?!?! hahahahahaha surely, you can't be serious. I am serious, and don't call me Shirley. Dude. That's beyond weak. I mean do you think his "jesus dark side' is accurate too?)
Gavin, I love to engage and have fun doing it and respectful as well and please know I don't have any ill will towards you and don't think of tone in this as attacking. I'm trying to correct you with some humor too. Judson is a good egg. He's a convert from anti catholic background here in N Carolina, and a master herbalist. You'd probably like his herbalist posts. But yeah I won't block you. I like the conversations. We are fides et ratio and not the turn off your mind (solid book too) that cults have where questioning anything is condemned.
You want to come after us? Fine. Be accurate with it. We can show our faults way better than the haters can. I mean ever heard of the cavider synod? Pornocracy of John xii? Trust me we can outdo whatever the haters bring up. Does every historican have a biased position? Yes, and if they say no they are lying. I have a biased, you have one, everyone has one. The key is to bring up facts and truth no matter what the outcome is. Or it's just nothing better than Daily Wire or Mark Levin etc. Plus, I love your gardening posts and have implemented many of them (got some of those apple seeds germinating as we speak that you brought up before) Bishop Sheen once wrote about those that hate us https://aleteia.org/2016/06/20/father-fulton-sheen-the-millions-who-hate-the-catholic-church & yes that Canadian murder thing has been proven 10 ways to Sunday that it was fake news.
Have a great day and Happy St. Patrick's Day
Steve, when you say things like "Slander is gay." it shows that you are coming from a very adolescent mindstate in your writing.
I have no interest in "coming after" anyone. You and Judson subscribed to my newsletter and then emailed/commented to my page and account (not the other way around).
The information I have shared here is indeed accurate to the best of my knowledge.
I am glad you enjoy the gardening post content and wish you all the best with your apple trees.
You keep saying silly things about peace loving Druids, but I obviously never said that. People that are ecologically literate, horticulturally adept and poetically skilled can also be proficient warriors on the battlefield, and they may or may not also engage in other unethical behavior such as enslaving humans. Whether or not the Gael (or any other ecologically literate and horticulturally adept indigenous culture) engaged in various forms of violence or slavery does not change the fact that their form of farming and their relationship with the ecosystems that supported them was (and is) far more advanced and stable than the imperialistic exploitative and anthropocentric Romanized Christian forms of farming and interacting with nature.
I do not romanticize the Druid's nor other indigenous people`s past nor do I romanticize the potential of their worldviews to provide solutions to the present challenges we face. I would suggest that we should keep in mind that demonization and dehumanization of the perceived “enemy” or targeted “sub-human class” of an empire is a time tested psychological warfare technique that has been employed in both real time conflicts and retrospectively as “victors write the history books”.
Therefore, I propose that people do far more irrational and fallacious romanticizing of Christian institutions, European imported statism and the myth of the “more civilized settler” than any one engages in with regards to Gaelic or Native American cultures.
While you or Judson may allow hate into your heart, I do not. So the link about people that hate you is not relevant here.
Regardless of any superiority complex delusions people may internalize due to dogmatic institutional indoctrination, I see all people as equal and containing the same spark given to them from God that exists in all beings.
I hope you have a great day as well.
Yes, I emailed you because the newsletter was emailed to me and, logically it makes sense to read the email and respond to said email. No? I run a website and a huge youtube channel. People comment every minute. 100% of the time it's the reader/watcher that comments. I never care how or when or public or not. Actually I like the direct messages or emails as they are normally not heated as people usually like to try to 'score points' on comments.
Well your knowledge is quite lacking then. I guess I could eat rat poison and go "well to the best of my knowledge it sounded good". Same idea. Just bc a post says something you like doesn't make it true. I mean I sent that to quite a few historians today and let's just say your sources weren't very good.
Again, Nicea had zero to do with what you claim and I mean come on the gospel of Thomas? A proven forgery (sure it had some authentic sayings, bc most forgers use some truth to get ya) in it but was written 100-200 yrs after Thomas' death and with some insane and silly lines throughout it (e.g. 'make Mary leave us, for females don't deserve life.. I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven" (Thomas 114) I mean whackado stuff) yet people get caught up on the verse that Stigmata showed and the fiction idea (to make some conspiracy... even Roger Ebert laughed at that movie) that the Church banned it bc it said people don't have to go to church. I mean to use that as a source has to be biased bc anyone worth their salt in research would know that is a very weak and poor argument to claim 'truth'. Plus it was other councils that put the canon of the scriptures together, again not Nicea. Though nobody even brings up what session this attempt came from. I have multiple books on Nicea and Alphonsus goes line by line on it and I need lemon juice to find this. Oh I forgot, in the gospel of Thomas "jesus" kills a few kids when he's 5 so yeah that probably isn't the best to use.
I know you didn't say peace loving Druids. I'm being sarcastic bc the write up was this big look how great the Druids were before mean ol Patrick, who was enslaved by them, came back and converted their hearts threw some violent forced act that is completely made up. That's great their farming was cool. I don't see Patrick banning their farming ever. Seemed they situation got better yet your argument is it got worse? Gonna have to prove that one way better than just being mad at "romanized Christian forms of farming and interacting with nature". Where's that ad hominem that we stunk at it? Benedictine monks did a solid job at it, Carmelites even did enough for a water to be named after them. I mean you gonna blame the potato famine on them (instead of blight?)
oh 100% on the victors write the history books. I live in the south. The north makes us into walking demons who enslaved people and beat them on the hour ever hour and blah blah I'm sure you've heard that and yet Lincoln's empire was the bad guys and the south wasn't anything like the fake history folks brought up. Woe to the conquered is the line for us here. Talk about not popular to say 'the south was right". Also, the only approved group to trash is us catholics and it's cool to do so for many people. I get my 'irish up' when I see folks getting plastured on St P's day when that flies in the face of what he was and taught.
Thanks for letting me now how massive and popular your youtube channel is (again) very impressive.
"I sent that to quite a few historians" wow! You have a team of historians on speed dial that jump at your beck and call to verify ancient Irish historical figures? Man, you must be a very important and popular youtuber indeed.
You seem quite defensive of aspects of Southern US culture that perceived other human beings as live stock to be bought and sold, this explains a lot about your rabid St. Patrick/Catholic institution defensiveness.
I think that placing any culture, group of people or individual on some pedestal as pure is unhealthy (the Gael and Druids included) . I feel we should be vigilant to make sure we are not romanticizing their past nor romanticizing the potential of their worldviews to provide solutions to the present challenges we face.
I also acknowledge the fact that psychopathy, greed and other anti-social traits are not unique to modern western culture. Unpleasant, selfish characteristics can be observed (overtly) in the traditions of specific isolated indigenous peoples, isolated groups of Gaels included (some of them were slave trading warlords and others may have respected the forest but were somewhat materialistic coveting ornate possessions).
Other indigenous peoples refused to trade with people that enslaved others and wanted nothing to do with money (as was the case with some of the people that are described in the the essay linked here https://gavinmounsey.substack.com/p/why-involuntary-governance-structures , who called the Eastern Woodlands, where I now live, home).
Thus, I feel that while no culture is perfect, and some may have lived in a way that expressed more compassion, ethical social structures and holistic thinking than others, one thing is certain, and that is that these starkly contrasted cultures offer us helpful sign posts as we attempt to navigate and forge a path towards a more honest, equitable, kind, abundant and regenerative future.
While the romanticizing is of indigenous culture is worth pointing out (because placing any culture, group of people or individual on some pedestal as pure is unhealthy).
I do not romanticize the Druids past nor do I romanticize the potential of their worldviews to provide solutions to the present challenges we face.
We need to apply that awareness both ways. As Corbett Report member "mkey" shared in a comment ( https://corbettreport.com/dissent-into-madness-the-weaponization-of-psychology/#comment-148057 )
"Westernized, civilized cultures sacrifice the unborn, the old, the young and everything in between every day and in droves.
Bloodshed and sacrifice. All day, every day, industrial scale."
Whether it is in the school mRNA “vaccination” clinics, the hospital or the elderly care facilities.. its human sacrifice, all day, everyday (for profit).
When I really think about it I would prefer a war club over the head and/or an arrow in the chest as opposed to the sickening, nefarious and pure evil process of being convinced you are safe and then drugged to death by a bunch of brainwashed cold hearted industrial medical staff.
Here is an example of the kind of fanaticism we are dealing with in the modern expression of Catholic human sacrifice. This is a clip of Catholic New York Governor Kathy Hochul bragging about her cult jewelry and calling on people to be her ‘vaccine apostles’ :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8TDi3v6uS8
Therefore, I propose that people do far more irrational and fallacious romanticizing of Christian institutions, European imported statism and the myth of the “more civilized settler” than any one engages in with regards to Druids or Native American/Indigenous cultures.
It all boils down to this, the Constantine manipulated version of Christian institutions are anthropocentric, hubristic and promote violence.
The state of the landscapes here on Turtle Island, speak to that truth.
I study soil and trees and I can analyze pre-colonial ecosystems and compare them to post-colonial. The difference is obvious, one path leads to the collapse of civilization due to exploitation and hubris, the other leads to regeneration and abundance.
For more info:
https://gavinmounsey.substack.com/p/the-rise-of-anthropocentrism-bright
Thus, I choose to learn from animist cultures and belief systems that are aligned with Creation and work in service of life and I leave the anthropocentric exploitative worldviews behind.
Point is (since this is public) to show that you were complaining about me emailing you back & I just wanted to show you that others have way more people emailing or messaging then you do.
Yes, I actually have historians at my finger tips. Laugh all you want. Truth is truth.
You - You seem quite defensive of aspects of Southern US culture that perceived other human beings as live stock to be bought and sold, this explains a lot about your rabid St. Patrick/Catholic institution defensiveness.
Me- clearly you bought into the northern revisionist history on that (the north was the slave trade area and the people who pushed for the end of slavery was the south. Corwin amendment anyone? Of course you would say something ignorant to embrace the revisionist history of Patrick and other made up things you think us Catholics did. Do you actually want to learn truth or just like whatever you like without questioning everything? That's not very intellectual of you. To think southern culture was just about humans as live stock is very ignorant.
Never siad one group of people was pure and spotless
Well you sounded like you romanticized it I mean you trash Patrick (apparently that's ok) and never even mentioned the historical fact that Patrick was enslaved by the people you were ramanticizing. I mean kind of an important factoid you left out. But hey you clearly think us southerners were all about slavery but the point of your article never even mentioned how Patrick got to Ireland to begin with bc Ireland wasn't on the Roman Empire radar at all.
Yes, the human sacrifice that goes on today (abortion, euthanasia, harvesting organs, etc etc) is terrible. Not the point of the original post. I was in the medical device sales industry for years. I know all about the drug dealers in pharma. Again, not the point of the article.
So bc Kathy is catholic (in name only or when it's convenient) that makes us all that way? Talk about an intellectual fallacy. Seriously, try again. A corrupt politician that uses the faith for her insanity doesn't make us Catholics the same as her or makes her a representative of the Church. Good grief I can't believe I even have to explain that one. That seems common sense but anti catholic thought isn't rational.
Ok, you still can't drop the Constantine thing. Why? Did you read a blog and you think that's accurate? You are sincere in that thought but you are sincerely wrong. The Church was around long before Constantine and Constanstine didn't create anything after. So you are stuck on Constantine for some reason but if you try reading history for once you may figure out that you possibly could be wrong on that thought. Perish the thought I know. Or do you reject that you could be wrong? Plus, bad apples don't ruin the whole. Again, you bring up violence yet then try gymnastics to say the Druids weren't violent, or other peoples native to areas. For example, you hate us. I get it. Clearly you know nothing about us that is why you hate. You hate what you don't know. Ever heard of Fr. Piere de Smet? I'd bet the farm you have you don't. French priest who came to the states and converted many of the indians west of the Mississippi. They loved him. Peace pipes with him, hoisted him on their shoulders, etc etc. The natives only wanted to talk to 'black robes'. The protties were upset at this. It's said that people would stumble on the natives areas and go 'these are the so called savages?" What did US Grant do? Banned the priests from the land. De Smet and 9 other chieftains went to DC to try to stop Grant but Grant didn't care. They wrote the pope and the pope wrote back and they had a party for a week before they even opened the letter. Again, this is stuff you don't know about but hate us anyways for some sort of violence that you don't even know why this or that happened. Yet you assume. Just like you assume the south was what you think it was listening to the approved 3x5 card you are supposed to thing. Try reading the kennedy twins on that https://kennedytwins.com/ before you type that weak attempt again.
"I leave the anthropocentric exploitative worldviews behind" well you clearly didn't on this article. Good for you to study soil. Pretty sure nobody studied soil and went yeah Patrick bad till now.
Very good article, thank you . You might be interested in this one I just read too https://substack.com/home/post/p-158803272
Thanks Sarah. I appreciate the thoughtful comment and link.
I added a quote from the article to this one and linked his post.
Cheers!
That's great , thanks Gavin .
Many interesting points here and I'm particularly glad to see you're familiar with Jimmy Ó Briain Billings' work! I suspect you will like this piece by Denise Conroy who is one of the people behind Airmid's Journal, which is also a publication I highly recommend if you want to follow current efforts on decolonialism in Ireland.
https://open.substack.com/pub/votiveillustration/p/st-patrick-of-the-political-propaganda
Thanks very much for the thoughtful comment.
I look forward to reading the post you linked and also look forward to learning more about your work.
I have subscribed to your stack and am so grateful to have connected with another kindred uncivilised spirit :)
It's ST. PADDY's Day, LOL not St. Patties, like burgers! "Paddy" is the Irish way of having a nickname for "Patrick." While St. Patrick may have been Christian, it's been well-known for a long time that the "snakes" he ran out of Ireland were the Pagans. Because when you are trying to conquer a People, you take their religion and turn it into YOUR religion. Hence the corporatist takeover of Christianity and re-assignment of it into Consumerism, Santa and Rudolph, The Grinch, and Frosty the Fucking Snowman.
And if you REALLY want to deep dive, there's some evidence that Christianity was INVENTED by a couple of Roman guys, who wrote a PLAY and that was then taken as FACTUAL.
Read about the beginnings of Christianity on Frances Leader's page, an excellent narrative of that whole affair... "Uncensored." But... Point is... In a nutshell, "Christianity" is a misunderstanding of a play written by Roman guys, and never actually had anything to do with real life, or even a mythological but serious story. Woah, Nellie. Didn't see that one coming!! I didn't, either, but I'm not surprised... Seems like everything we ever learned is upside-down and/or backwards.
Cheers. :)
I received a very interesting email from a subscriber (that apparently did not want to throw around insults publicly, but was fine with doing it privately).
(here is a screenshot of the email: https://substack.com/profile/43807786-gavin-mounsey/note/c-99526355 )
Some of the fun highlights include him describing Gaelic Irish people as “dinosaur people” who (he claims) the Roman Catholic church stopped from “tearing hearts out of people and eating them”.
And then he goes on to tell me how he has “a platform much bigger than yours on alt media” (I guess that is supposed to be impressive or scare me?) and describes my post as “garbage” and “compost”.
(without ever citing any sources)
His response highlights the truth in what I have quoted from my St. Patrick’s Day post below.
"Some people have chosen to throw the memory of their indigenous ancestors under the proverbial bus, internalizing the dehumanizing narratives inculcated into them through multi-generational propaganda systems imposed onto our modern day lives by statist regimes and remnants of Roman imperialist propaganda still rattling around in religious institutions."
Stockholm Syndrome comes in many forms, recently we saw it with face diaper wearing pfizer cheerleaders saying how much they love lockdowns, and it also exists on a multi-generational scale when people (like this Steve Cunningham that emailed me) are raised to put the institutions that oppressed and ethnically cleansed their indigenous ancestors (and continue to stifle their sovereignty today) on a pedestal.
This man is obviously a devout Catholic and criticism of his beliefs seems to be very painful for him. He needs to read a little more history and to also remember that not all Catholics have been good, God fearing followers of Jesus's path... he needs to take into account the damage done to so many people under the Spanish Inquisition. With that in mind it's not to difficult to envision some Romans in England wishing to dominate Eire by whatever means, and if religion could be used, 'well, why not?'...
Very interesting post Gavin.
Congratulations. Much to ponder.
I believe that every blow against colonialism and imperialism is righteous, and any delving and disseminating can seed sprouts to root and grow.
Indigenize or die.
Lig sé a bheith amhlaidh
_____
WERE you at the Reset this year?
Thanks for reading and for the thoughtful comment.
Well said regarding seeds sprouting, i`ll join you in holding that vision.
The part where you said "Indigenize or die." is fascinating. Would you care to elaborate on that at all?
On the one hand, it could be perceived as more of an omen, prophesy or educated guess regarding the inevitable destination if individuals and entire modern industrial statist cultures continue to have an exploitative, adversarial and anthropocentric relationship with the land that supports them.
On the other hand it might be seem as the sort of mirror reflection of the Doctrine Of Discovery if one looked at it like a threat.
I personally would not seek to impose my will or way upon others using violence, but I do acknowledge the suicidal trajectory of individuals, institutions and entire modern industrial cultural demographics that embrace the antithesis of indigeneity (colonial extractivism, exploitation and the cultural orphanhood/imperialistic indoctrination of statism).
Thank you for the Gaelic prayer brother.
I wish I was at the Reset this year. I lost my passport in the airport a few years back and now I am having trouble bringing myself to go pay some government office hundreds of dollars to give me this "glorified cattle tag" so that I can ask for permission to move freely on the planet Earth.
It is just one more way that these statist regimes impose their tyranny on this world. Demanding that we pay for documents so that we can move freely on the planet we were born on, how absurd!
For some interesting history on Passports, read:
https://edwardslavsquat.substack.com/p/one-hundred-years-of-cattle-tagging
from the article "Prior to 1914 one could travel the world freely, without being asked to furnish a passport or any other document.
With the advent of the First World War rigid controls on travel were introduced in Europe and elsewhere, purportedly in the interests of safeguarding national security.
In 1920, after the conclusion of hostilities, the League of Nations met in Paris to discuss a return to “pre-war conditions.”
Article 23 of the League of Nation’s Covenant upheld the principles of freedom of communication and transit, implying an end—or at least an extreme loosening—of the previously unthinkable international passport system that had taken root over the past six years.
The Paris Passport Conference decided a complete return to freedom of movement—considering a basic human right before the start of the War to End All Wars—was impossible, and instead recommended the creation of a standardized type of passport that would help simplify the new system.
Still, this “recommendation” was billed as a temporary measure. In a resolution passed on October 21, 1920, the conference expressed “hope” that the “total abolition of restrictions” would be possible “in the near future.”"
Thanks again for the comment.
Absolute bullshit. The Carrolls are proud Irish Catholics, followers of the true religion.
Thanks for your candid comment.
I appreciate you having the integrity to voice your opinion publicly and stand behind your views (as I have had a number of people email me privately that preferred to remain in the shadows).
Could you elaborate on any particular points in this post that are inaccurate in your opinion?
What our ancestors abandoned more than a thousand years ago deserves no loyalty. What they lived for, fought and died for since, does. For nearly 500 years the English have killed us, dispersed us and enslaved us for our adherence to Catholicism. The answer is not to turn our backs on the faith of our fathers for some mythical and vague remnant of paganism. It is to stand even more boldly defense of the truth, the one true religion revealed by God. If Christianity is true, then only Catholicism can be the true Church. If Christianity is false, then there is no true religion because the world is full of people of differing religious beliefs. If there is no true religion, there is no religion and thus, no truth that surpasses the mind of man. And if that be the case, our ancestors were all fools and there is nothing, true or good or worth honoring in the past or present of any culture on earth.
The way you keep saying "the one true religion" reminds me of the vibe of that wonderful edict called The Doctrine Of Discovery that came from the center of power of this institution you covet so much. Are you familiar with it?
Here is the message in a nut shell quoted from it:
“Invade, search out, capture, vanquish and subdue. All Saracens and pagans whatsoever, And other enemies of Christ wheresoever placed… And reduce their persons to perpetual slavery…”
(for more info: https://substack.com/@gavinmounsey/note/c-94196148 )
I suppose you also see any surviving remnants of intact indigenous cultures on Turtle Island as "vague remnants of paganism" that should be replaced with "the one true religion" ?
Hey that is exactly the motto the residential schools were based on here in Canada (where thousands of indigenous children were tortured and murdered, because they refused to capitulate and assimilate to "the one true religion").
(for more info: https://ehprnh2mwo3.exactdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Survivors_Speak_English_Web.pdf and https://ehprnh2mwo3.exactdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/AAAA-Hamilton-Report-Illustrations-final.pdf )
It is ironic that someone that values herbalism would champion an institution that so viciously sought to stamp out indigenous ethnobotanical knowledge globally (describing people practicing herbalism as "witches" and "pagans").
The truth is, if Jesus of Nazareth ever had the chance to come back and see the horrors and atrocities that institutions like the Roman (Constantine distorted) Catholic church and its minions have perpetrated in his name, he would shake his head in disgust and say something like "Forgive them God, for they know not what they do".
Thanks for elaborating.
You might want to check the recent news. That story from Canada was a hoax. It was more anti-Catholic lies, and it caused attacks on Catholic Churches, priests and innocent people. By definition, there can only be one truth. You must figure out what that ruth is. I bet your grandparents or great grandparents would have been glad to tell you it is Catholicism.
Check the news he says, well, that explains a lot.
The mainstream news media says it was a "hoax", well, that is reassuring, I suppose all those survivors were paid actors and the mass graves were set up by anti-Catholic haters that buried bones for people to find?
Common man, even you do not believe that nonsense.
Look, I lived with a residential school survivor, I saw his scars and listened to his stories when his eyes filled up with tears talking about his friends that refused the orders given one too many times and were not as lucky as him to make it out alive.
So even if you want to dismiss the thousands of first hand accounts from survivors all over the country ( for more info: https://ehprnh2mwo3.exactdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Survivors_Speak_English_Web.pdf ) and you want to buy into some propaganda story you saw on the "news", I know the truth, and God knows the truth.
https://ehprnh2mwo3.exactdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/AAAA-Hamilton-Report-Illustrations-final.pdf
It is time to take a long hard honest look in the mirror, ask the hard questions and stop believing any nonsense they feed you on the TV.
The crusade is over brother, no one is interested in joining on with a crew that keeps saying they offer "the one true religion".
There are many paths to know God, whether you and your buddies are willing to acknowledge them or not.
It is actually a hoax and if you look into the supposedly scandalous charges against the Catholic Church, you will find mostly lies that are not just anti-Catholic but motivated by a hatred of the Irish and English supremacy. Meanwhile, has it occurred to you that pagan Ireland practiced slavery, human sacrifice, indescriminat slaughter of rivals, etc.... so did Native Americans, who were also cannibals..... But, you only fault your Catholic ancestors.
You lost me at St Patties day. As an Irish person I can tell you it’s a great faux pas to call it that. We hate it! Call it Patrick’s day or St Patrick’s day please. Paddy’s day if you must. But never ever Patties.
Thanks for the comment Abby.
Nick names for the individual in question are not really relevant to me, so I would be happy to change any usage of "St Patties" in the article, but I would also value your opinion on the rest of the content provided given you live in Ireland.
As I explained in the article, to me, regardless of what you call the man, St. Patrick’s Day is as much about celebrating Celtic culture as Columbus Day is about celebrating Cherokee culture.
Do you feel that the life and mission of St. Patrick is worthy of celebrating yourself? If so, why?
Thanks again for the comment.
"Hinder the temple, disable the soul. "
This last is the real key, i think. For us to be slaves we must be made less than human. Everywhere you look, alliances between species, not a lot of slavery. This is not how the earth rolls. It is not really in us to be like that. Parents and chieftans, yes, not really slaves and masters. There is a site called the Brehon Academy, that gets into the details, about the original Irish slavery. It was more like a what we today call "getting a job". Or "repaying a debt" in some cases, the local chieftan was Obligated to see everyone was cared for, and he would take the unfortunate in, But they would have chores, like in any family. more indentured servitude. No one who could behave in a human way, went hungry or was unhoused. Not till, after christianity came. Then the clan system was wrecked. that was the real purpose of the christian church. destroy clam solidarity, clan cohesion, sow discordant among allies. In just the same way, Communism, seeks to destroy the family. All that is left of once powerful human form of solidarity culture and above all fierce independence. And St patrick was Welsh. so we are not even celebrating an irishman, of whom there are many noble lives to choose from. The church gave us our modern history tho, hence the twist. Deep in our hearts we know, we are a noble people. One who has been made by force, and starvation, to loose faith in itself.
Thank you for the detailed comment my friend.
Well said regarding the ubiquity of symbiotic and reciprocal relationships between non-human species on Earth.
I appreciate you offering your knowledge of the clan system as well.
I had read several conflicting accounts on the birth place of the man now referred to "Saint Patrick". Some claimed he was born on land in what is now called "England". Some claimed he was born on land in what is now called "Scotland" and yes others claim he was born on land in what is now called "Wales".
These sources I found are typically originating in communities and/or institutions that have a Catholic background, so they claim his birth place out of a sense of pride (which ironically) is sort of like spitting on the graves of their indigenous ancestors.
I imagine regardless of where he was born, he must have learned to speak some degree of Gaelic, but it seems pretty unilaterally agreed upon that Latin (well "Vulgar Latin" in particular) was his first language and that he was born to and raised by an elite Roman occupier family.
So, given those facets of his life, language, cultural upbringing, genetics and stated life mission (as an adult), it would seem to me that Saint Patrick was about as Welsh as Elon Musk is Zulu/African (given he was born there) or Huron-Wendat (he went to school in Kingston, Ontario, Canada and has citizenship here).
The Welsh people have a rich pre-colonial Gaelic culture with wonderful art and symbiotic horticultural practices that were (and are) the opposite of the Roman empire's approach of violence, domination and adversarial/exploitative relationships with nature. So, based on what I have learned about what Constantine's Romanized Christianity sought to do to indigenous animist cultures (such as the Welsh) I personally, as someone with a little Welsh blood, do not see Patrick as a respected ancestor nor an elder of the tribe (regardless of his birth place).
Thanks again for the comment.
I very much agree with your sentiment, and i have only ready one source, and i stopped, after a story about 2 female druids that patrick and his men came upon as they bathed, as the story goes, patrick and his men talked to them to share the good news, and they saw the light “ became believers, and were taken into the sky, never to be seen again”. a shudder of horror went through me, and i would read no further.
I read a similar account of those two Druidesses. From what I read it sounded like weird euphemisms for this Patrick guy either killing two girls or convincing them to kill themselves? Super creepy.
Here is the version I came across:
"There is a story about Patrick and two Pagan Celtic Princesses – “He also caused two young princesses to die at the Ogulla Well, aka Cliabach Well. Here he baptised Eithne and Fidelma, daughters of King Laoghaire of Tara. They were attending the great Druid school of Cashel Manannáin at Rathcroghan. The two sisters were washing when St. Patrick came upon them. He told them that the only way to see God is after death. St. Patrick then baptized them after which they both died. Not a good plan – this seems to be a cover story for something else.” We are led to believe that Eithne and Fidelma died so they could enter heaven. A church in Tulsk nearby is named after them. Hang on a bit! Two young high-status female Druí Daltaí (student druids) suddenly died after a ‘blessing’ by a christian priest… only a few miles from their Druid school?
We are told – https://sites.google.com/site/catholictopics/s_patrick_and_ireland/eithne-and-fidelma “And so there, within sight of the palace of Cuachan, Patrick baptised them with the waters of the Well of Cliabach. Eithne and Fidelma remained for a while on their knees, deep in prayer. A rough stone altar was made ready and Patrick prepared to say Mass. Before the Mass began the two girls came forward again, saying, "We wish to consecrate ourselves as Spouses of Christ". Patrick received their vows and placed over them the Veil – the first consecrated virgins in Ireland. Then they wished to see the Face of Christ. But Patrick replied, “You cannot do that, until you have tasted the Sacrifice and passed through the Door of Death”. “We desire these things” they replied. Patrick offered the Sacrifice and gave them the Holy Eucharist. Then they closed their eyes, and then they died.”
Ah come on – why would two Pagan princesses - Eithne the Red and Fidelma the Fair, studying at a Druid school (under royal patronage) suddenly want to be spouses / wives of Christ? Why are we told that these two female Druids became Nuns who were automatically brides of Christ in a polygamous marriage that could never be consummated? Why were Virgins marrying a dead man? How come they died after eating Patrick’s sacrament?
Maybe the story needs an outside perspective – two young Princesses: Eithne and Fidelma who were being fostered (living with high status as guests) with Druids Mael and Coplait were attending the great Druid school of Cashel Manannáin at Rathcroghan attended by their armed guards were at the Cliabach Well washing themselves. They are claimed by the church as being among the first converts by Patrick to his tradition. The druid school they were attending is named after the Gaelic version of the sea god that is best known today as Neptune. The school is still visible as raised banks on the west side of Glenballythomas at Cruachan / Rath Croghan near Tulsk in Co Roscommon.
At that time of Eithne and Fidelma, daughters of King Laoghaire of Tara death by baptism the native laws aka Fenechus / Gael Law (aka Brehon law) would have demanded King Laoghaire of Tara seek recompense from who ever was responsible because under Celtic Laws 'whether by accident or by design' his two daughter were dead!"
(source: https://www.celticdruidtemple.com/thetruestoryofstpatrick.html )
truly, the Brehon laws were still in effect and would be for some time. He would have to lie and all his men tel the same lie to avoid paying compensation for his and likely their crimes to the clans of the people murdered... as well as leave no witnesses.
If you're interested in early Christianity, there's a really interesting book that's a sort of Feminist Bible, if you will... But also a history of pre-Patriarchy-- Matriarchy. Pretty detailed accounts of early days of Queendoms and lots of detail. The history is well-researched, and it's a scathing indictment of Patriarchy. It's also the plunge into Matriarchy, which seems to have existed much, much earlier on... And it talks about how Christianity was very much resisted in the British Isles and elsewhere, too, because people wouldn't give up the Goddess... Hence we get Mary, Jesus' mother... It seemed to be the only way to get people to take up Christianity. Lots of citation, sort of enthralling. Also very horrifying in parts. I forget the author's name... Elizabeth Gould Davis, l looked it up. 1973, I think.
Thanks for an extraordinary amount of work, some interesting histories and thoughts and for the herbal and mead info .